US Election 2024 antics

Controversial: Politics & Govt Politics & Govt: In The News
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Core Democratic Values: Fundamental Beliefs

Core democratic values are the fundamental beliefs that unite all Americans. These values are found in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and other important documents of our nation.

Fundamental Beliefs

Life: A person’s right to life can’t be violated except if your life or the lives of others is threatened.

Liberty: Includes personal freedom, political freedom, and economic freedom. This is the freedom for people to gather in groups. They can have their own beliefs, ideas, and opinions. People also have the right to express their opinions in public.

  • Personal Freedom: right to think and act without government control.
  • Political Freedom: right to participate in political process.
  • Economic Freedom: right to buy, sell and trade private property and the right to employment without the government interfering.

The Pursuit of Happiness: As long as you don’t interfere with others you have the right to seek happiness in your own way.

Common Good: Working together for the welfare of the community or the benefit of all.

Justice: All people should be treated fairly with both the benefits and the obligations of society. No individual or group should be favored over another person or group.

Equality: The right to political, legal, social and economic equality. Everyone has the right to the same treatment regardless of race, sex, religion, heritage, or economic status.

Diversity: The differences in culture, dress, language, heritage, and religion are not just tolerated, but celebrated as a strength.

Truth: The people expect and demand that the government not lie to them, and the government should disclose information to the people. The government and its people should not lie.

Popular Sovereignty: The power of the government comes from the people. The people are the ultimate authority over the government.

Patriotism: The people or citizens show a love and devotion for their country and its values. They can show this by words or by actions.

Democratic liberalism aims to reach a synthesis of democracy which is the participation of the people in power and liberalism, a political and/or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual.

In the USA we are embroiled in extremist ideology on both sides of the isle, we are closer to being a full blown Corporatocracy, ( short form :Corpocracy ) than a Democracy.

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Obama brought us back from one of the most disastrous economic crisis since the great depression, then Hilary Clinton tried to ride the “Obama popularity wave”, and because that “wave” was so strong, even though Hilary had so many political enemies, she became overconfident, and Donald Trump was able to defeat her. Like Biden in 2020, the vote in 2016 wasn’t so much in support of Trump as it was to keep Hilary out of office. The hatred of the “establishment” is due largely to the fact the “establishment” (under Trump / Biden) leans more towards the extremist elements of society than it does the ordinary citizen.

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103

Happy Birthday Donald. :cake: :birthday: :cake: :birthday:

Go straight to gaol, do not pass Go, do not collect $200

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Okay, so our choices are Joe Biden who is no longer there. He is a walking (sometimes) body or Trump. I think I’ll go with Trump :wink:

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105

And if I was an American citizen, I would go with Trump too… :+1:
And a very warm welcome to the forum Juli…good to have you onboard… :wink:

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106

Welcome indeed.
And you have my sympathy in the poor choices available for president. Whilst I’ve liked Biden’s politics and economics, he really does appear to be too old now.
I am interested, from your perspective in one of Trump’s favourite states, how you felt about the shenanigans that went on as the 2020 election results came in. From afar, it looked like Trump overstepped the mark in his efforts to regain a majority. In fact, what I’ve seen and read makes me believe that he and some of his supporters acted illegally.
Do you see it that way and still excuse Trump? Or do you not see his actions as any worse than any other?

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107

They had January 6 committee that had a long investigation, spending millions of tax payers money and came up with a final report that has been shoot full of holes.
But, being honest with ones self, Trump haters were and are still in place before Trump was in office.
Look at all the hundreds of accusations and charges against him that have come to “not”.
No, I did not vote for him in 2016, but I did in 2020. JMO, how did one win without campaigning (literally from his basement) and the one that gets me the most, he got more votes then Obama?

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108

Thanks for that post. I guess you are probably closer to what has been going on in the aftermath of the Jan 6 et al, but your summary does not fit with my understanding. The Jan 6 Committee report was of course criticised by the Republicans (after all it criticised their president). However I thought its conclusions were that Trump did act to falsely change voting results in some states, did incite a mob to violence on Jan 6, did try to coerce officials to change the result to his favour. Then following the report Trump was charged in Georgia and in New York - with these trials still to take place. So not exactly coming to nought.
I guess in the options available, you’ve decided the claims against Trump are overstated and that he is no worse than any other politician in his attempts to win.

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109

A traitor / convicted felon vs. a senile ol’ man, poor selection, and 2 candidates who have done naught but divide a nation.

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110

Welcome Juli.
Have you heard some of Trump’s speeches lately?
If I was able I wouldn’t vote for either.
Good luck for Nov5 anyway. :grinning:

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Good Question. On the election night in 2020 he looked like he was going to win then something strange started happening. The states were counting mail-in votings late. Usually we know that night or at the latest it’s the next day. That didn’t happen. We didn’t find out till a couple days later. I voted for him so I just sort of stopped watching the news after they called it for Biden. I felt it was rigged. I didn’t watch the Jan. 6th? day. I believe that was a set up too based on congressional testimony of undercover FBI agents inciting the crowd. Looking back now I believe he definitely should have won. There are videos of people in Georgia and Pennsylvania polling stations of them bringing in boxes of votes and loading them in vans. There is a lot of video evidence if you do your research. There were more mail-in votes then were mailed out. In any case, the election was called and we had to accept the results.
I knew Biden had dementia before 2020, so it has been a rough 4 years with him. I know most people don’t like Trump but at least you know what he’s doing. Hopefully he can fix this mess.
Oh and the charges against him will be overturned on appeal because he did not commit 34 felonies. They are after him now because he decided to run again.
These are just my opinions based on research that has uncovered a lot over these past years.

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112

Thank Psmith,
Don’t worry about Trump he sometimes says things that are a little out there but he’s a good guy. His heart is in the right place. I have watched some of his rallies and speeches but not really this week. I am sure he is fired up since they are trying to railroad him with all of these trumped up charges, no pun intended.

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113

You are right. I did forget another option. That is, there was widespread and massive fraud during the 2020 election and this fraud was conducted so cleverly that no concrete evidence of it has ever come to light. That’s how clever it was. Of course, Giuliani found that insightful & credible witness who confirmed all the fraud she saw … but where is she now? Is it merely a coincidence that we’ve never heard from here again?

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Lincolnshire there is evidence. I believe there is now additional evidence in Arizona. Any evidence they have is all on video so it’s pretty “concrete”. It doesn’t matter what evidence there is because they will never overturn an election. If you look at the Republican polls that believe Biden’s 2020 win was illegitimate is at 70% even today. That number goes down to 1/3 of all Americans (both Dem and Rep) today believe the election was illegitimate.
I can’t comment on Guiliani because I have not followed anything regarding him. I think he is in jail for something but I am not sure of the charges.
This is obviously a polarizing topic today but it is what it is. There are few politicians in the US that are law abiding citizens. They are worth millions. The government doesn’t pay that much.

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115

Psmith it’s always hot in the summer here especially in the southern states. Arizona is like desert so it’s really hot. (a.) No, I wouldn’t go (b.) Yes, I would hold the event. We do have weather forecasts here. I live in FL so even mowing the grass can get to me on some days. You just have to be smart about it.

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116

Oh dear.
“On the election night in 2020 he looked like he was going to win then something strange started happening. The states were counting mail-in votings late. Usually we know that night or at the latest it’s the next day. That didn’t happen. We didn’t find out till a couple days later.”
That is simply incorrect. Even Fox News called the election for Biden on the night. As you confirm yourself:
“I voted for him so I just sort of stopped watching the news after they called it for Biden.”

“I didn’t watch the Jan. 6th? day. I believe that was a set up too based on congressional testimony of undercover FBI agents inciting the crowd.”
That is utter rubbish. The crowd came because Trump told them to come and protest. Trump even inferred that violent action would be appropriate. There were enough groups there who had stated goals of violent action to stop Biden without the need for any incitement from agents. This was simply mob violence believing they were supported by Trump to riot.

“There is a lot of video evidence if you do your research.”
Yet your research fails to identify any role for Giuliani. That is not really thorough and exhaustive research is it? But then again the phrase “I’ve done the research” is always, absolutely always, a sign that someone has done a couple of simple searches on the internet and found things they already believe to be true. Not research, just looking at echo chamber sites that re-confirm your views.

Trump, most likely guided by Bannon, sowed the seeds for his fake claims of fraud at the election in the years running up to 2020. He knew it would be tight but also suspected he’d not win without resorting to legal objections, or non-legal objections.

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Didn’t he think anyone would notice?
Does he think?

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Is this rhetorical?

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Perhaps not but there is a good possibility he will be your next president, or you might have a bit of bother on your hands…

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First one must realize that politics is a down right dirty business, especially here in the States, and each side (Democrats / Republicans) are going to try covering up the crimes and weak points of their candidates by focusing on the weaknesses of their opponents. While Hunter Biden’s legal issues were legit, they became a political issue thus giving a path for the GOP to get to Joe Biden, hopefully to implicate him in someway. Believe when I tell you, Joe Biden has some well documented cognitive issues which impairs his ability as a leader, but so does Donald Trump, which the GOP has been fighting vigorously to cover up, because an impaired leader can be easily manipulated by the people around him, and both Donald Trump and Joe Biden are surrounded by extremist advisors, which renders both candidates as poor choices for President of the USA. While Joe should be in a nursing home, Trump could be exonerated from his crime for his inability to determine right for wrong, then sent to a nursing home, but we are in the USA, money / political clout talks, and everything else walks.

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