I’m paranoid if anyone sneezes and splutters around me, sneeze and splutter around me and you will get a death stare 
It all stems from me having pneumonia and I am petrified of catching germs now. I think I need to start doing a Michael Jackson walking about with a surgical mask over my nose and mouth.
Just as long as you don’t ask to be frozen in a tomb…
The masks are what they do in Japan isn’t it, LQ? But that’s maybe more to do with the traffic smog than catching infections?
It would be nice if people who have flu could wear a surgical mask when on public transport, maybe surgical gloves too…
Anyway they are working on a universal flu vaccine so they will be able to capture all strains by getting the vaccine to adapt to mutations. You will then be able to have one shot as a child for decades of protection.
I’m sure there’s just as much opposition within the industry to such a miracle vaccs. But it would be like the holy grail of vaccinations.
Very glad to hear it. That’s step 1 on the journey to the truth.
I have no personal facts.
The facts you need to be interested in are those from the internationally respected Cochrane Institute, the organisation that sets the standards for medical testing protocols across the globe, which employs many 1000s of highly qualified medical experts in numerous fields. They’ve done “systematic reviews” of the vaccine and come to the conclusions I have outlined.
Read THEIR reports on the testing of Flu Vaccines.
Then look at the UK health services’s own published figures for Flu Deaths each year. Not my facts. Facts of the UK health service. Deaths from Flu have been rising for a few years now. The links to the data are all in the Flu threads here.
That’ll do for starters. I’m sure you can find your way from there.
For me the flu jab is definitely NO i was so ill twice after having it while working with elderly folk and work encouraged me to have it . Personally i agree with the knowledge Realist lets us know about . I accept its not for everyone and each to his /her own but at least the information is there to peruse for those who may choose too.
Yes, as I mentioned in my posts #118 & #120 personal experience will always win through if we have any sense about us.
It’s like the old saying “try anything once”. If it works, continue. If it makes you feel worse, don’t go there again.
Simple really isn’t it? 
That’s the point entirely.
The usual clique on here love to try and argue the toss with me about this stuff but the reality is they are arguing with the most respected medical testing organisations on the planet. They offer nothing but emotional rhetoric and annecdotal nonsense citing various excuses for having the vaccine when the medical research organisations have told us the vaccine is useless snake oil.
It’s a very dangerous place to be because it means bloodyminded stubborness and refusal to face plain facts are taking the place of simple objective rational reasoning and that in turn means those people are going to be hugely vulnerable to the other scams the medical industry are busily perpetrating like for example Mammography.
On a personal level I couldn’t give a hoot if people are stubborn enough to put themselves at risk, the problem however is that those people taking the flu shots are spreading actual flu around up to 6 times more than those who don’t have the vaccines. So they are putting others at serious risk, which is kinda ironic because their own usual strap lines are that those people who don’t have the vaccines are the ones putting others at risk. That’s what facts and research does, it exposes the lies and myths peddled by the medical industry and those blindly following it.
cochrane has confirmed that for every 7 children vaccinated for (live) flu one child is prevented from contracting it. Children are spreaders and they are the focus for prevention among the more vulnerable.
PPV Pneumococcal vaccine is effective against pneumonia. More so for healthy adults but still worth having.
There are insufficient studies (quoted by cochrane) on the adjuvant flu vaccine which boosts the immune system of older people. But they have confirmed it does no harm and may provide a benefit.
NB Realist on a separate vaccine issue that you have brought up here somewhere, here is a BMJ link citing the efficacy of the HPV vaccine against cervical cancer based on a ten year study. You may also have read the recent headlines on this. The main point of HPV vaccination is the prevention of cancer. It’s proven to be working.
"Results During the follow-up of 4.5 to 10 years post enrolment we identified 75 cases of cervicalintraepithelial neoplasia grade 3 (CIN3) and 4 cases of invasive cervical cancer (ICC) in the unvaccinated cohort[, and 4 CIN3 cases in the HPV-16/18 vaccinated women. "
Only 4 cases in the vaccinated cohort vs 75 in the unvaccinated.
Tut tut tut Annie !!!
Firstly, no link given to the research and more importantly you’ve left out the crucial comments about how reliable the studies were.
Here’s the link:
Cochrane comment:
“Data on the most serious consequences of influenza complications leading to hospitalisation were not available”
“For both vaccine types, the absolute reduction in influenza and ILI varied considerably across the study populations, making it difficult to predict how these findings translate to different settings . . . . Adverse event data were not well described in the available studies. Standardised approaches to the definition, ascertainment and reporting of adverse events are needed.”
In simple terms what this means, as ever, is that procedures are not in place to properly record the instances of adverse effects of the vaccines. This is fairly typical of all vaccines. The industry has no vested interest to properly gather such data, they can only lose when such data reveals the true extent of harm to human life.
To know whether a vaccine is fit for purpose you need to properly know a number of key things:
- How effective it is at preventing the condition it is designed to prevent
- How many deaths it prevents
- How many people it harms
- How many people the vaccine kills
One can not make any sensible judgement on whether a vaccine is good or bad without such data and rolling vaccines out to the nation without having tested and provided that kind of data is both irresponsible and wicked.
Kids spread flu far more than other people. Giving them live flu strains in vaccines ensures that the flu virus is spread around the population rapidly and comprehensively thus creating it’s own demand for the product.
We don’t have “flu seasons” simply because viruses like to pop out of the woodwork during winter. We have flu seasons because that’s when people start having flu vaccines which ensure that the flu viruses spread around.
It is a self serving industry.
Vaccinated children should be quarantined for 2 weeks. Of course if they did that, the demand for the vaccine would rapidly disappear imho.
I dont know if I’ve said this before but it’s worth a mention
Daughter is a teacher in infants school
Children all queued up for the sniff flu vaccine
Each sniffing the live virus squirted up their noses within days numerous children off school with flu and my daughter and teachers all got ill with flu symptoms and her two girls who were NOT given the sniff vaccine all ill . So the virus spread like wildfire in the air of the infants school .
It is a fact that by squirting the virus up the noses of these children spread the flu to all in the school as my daughter will testify. Then after it spread to my daughter and her unvaccinated children it passed onto me .
Thank you Susan
Proof positive that it is THE VACCINE INDUSTRY that is purposely spreading these flu viruses into the population on a yearly basis. thereby actually creating the “Flu Season” and thereby ensuring that there is constant demand for their vaccines.
The fact that spreading flu viruses around will kill some weak and vulnerable elderly people or otherwise already sick people is of no consequence to these fat cats. We are expendable. They make literally $billions from these vaccines.
They use Campaigns Of Fear to make adults and elderly people take up their flu shots, flu shots which are proven to help only 1 person in about every 100 vaccinated.
This is a terrible situation. A terrible fraudulent industry and a deliberate assault on human health. For those elderly that actually die of Flu or who later contract Pneumonia (due to immune system stretched/compromised by the vaccine), this really equates to murder imho.
Shame on you Realist for celebrating anecdotal evidence!
There’s absolutely no evidence in your cochrane links that the child flu vaccine is ineffective or harmful. Would you be happier if they gave children an inactivated version? Nobody can catch flu from a dead virus.
There is a two week incubation period and that’s unavoidable. If children show signs of flu then parents should not send them to school where they will spread it, but that’s often inconvenient for them.
Hi
I always have vaccinations, they have well known very beneficial side effects.
The prevent you from believing in false science and ludicrous conspiracy theories.
I agree, my husband and I have certainly benefitted from having our yearly flu vaccines.
That’s because as the research stated, very clearly I thought, the harmful effects of that vaccine have not been recorded or monitored. Therefore it CAN NOT be said to be unharmful. Given my research into various vaccines I would happily bet decent money that the child nasal flu vaccine IS indeed harmful.
An article from the Grauniad:
[i]"the BMJ (where I work) has published papers questioning the quality of evidence for the benefits of the influenza vaccine, and whether industry-funded trials have reported “over-optimistic” results. I ask Tom Jefferson, the lead author of the Cochrane Review on Vaccines for Preventing Influenza in Healthy Children, which looked at findings from 75 studies, if I should give my four-and-a-half-year-old the nasal vaccine spray.
“No,” he says, because the trials show a reporting bias on the harms of the live attenuated influenza vaccine (the form of vaccine delivered nasally). “Influenza vaccines are about marketing and not science,” he says. “We have few trials, and masses of very poor quality observational evidence. We have presented evidence of considerable reporting bias, which governments continue to ignore. The science is missing and so making an informed decision is very difficult.”
Jefferson also believes that the evidence of harm may be under reported because of a lack of standardised safety-outcome data"[/i]
Given a choice between the two yep, inactivated would be better but I’d personally prefer leaving kids well alone and letting them develop their immune systems naturally. Any vaccine stresses the body and leaves the person more vulnerable to viruses for a period after the shot. They also deliver very nasty ingredients into the body which can have serious impacts, some life changing, some fatal.
It’s simply a question of numbers. How many are harmed or killed by the vaccines vs how many are prevented from dying from the illness.
Unless governments enforce proper monitoring of both sides of that equation then nobody can confidently state that a given vaccine is good. They have no idea. And that sadly is mostly where we are with vaccines. There’s no financial gain to be had by monitoring the adverse events, life changing side effects and deaths caused by the actual vaccines.
And that of course is what vaccine manufacturers count on. They know kids won’t sit still and won’t stay locked into a room for 2 weeks. Adults on the other hand might be more responsible but not kids. So kids are clearly targetted because they WILL spread the flu around in huge numbers thereby creating the “flu season”.
Ref research - what nonsense! There is insufficient research but they think it probably works. There’s nothing on there about healthy kids passing it on or contracting it because it’s attenuated live. Children with compromised immune systems should not be having it.
“Jefferson also believes”? What type of science fact is this?! Tut tut Realist - your own standards are slipping by the second! You basically have no real facts on this.
In terms of the incubation period they should simply vaccinate kids in July before they break up for Summer. They should have the vaccine by then anyway. Your hero Tom has said that Flu is seasonal and it’s very rare in Summer months so that’s the solution.
Your “research”? Remind us again Realist what are your qualifications in this area?
Yep. As with all vaccines in this fraudulent industry, the amount of proper independent unbiased research is lacking. Where some of that data does exist, it is damning of the flu vaccine but most importantly, the data pertaining to how much harm toxic vaccines are inflicting on people is not being measured properly. . . for obvious reasons.
There are plenty of studies out there concerning virus shedding by both kids and adults.
Here’s one that occured in Germany
122 index patients ended up with 189 cases of flu
[i]“Duration of infectiousness as measured by viral culture lasted approximately until illness days 4–6”
“Asymptomatic/subclinical infections occur infrequently, but may be associated with substantial amounts of viral shedding. Presymptomatic shedding may arise in one third of cases, and shedding characteristics appear to be independent of (seasonal or pandemic) (sub)type, age, antiviral therapy or vaccination”[/i]
In English . . .
People shed the virus even before they realise they have it (i.e. before symptoms emerge) in 1/3 of cases. The infectiousness lasts 4 to 6 days.
The science FACT was given in the rest of the sentence which you conveniently omitted there
“Jefferson also believes that the evidence of harm may be under reported because of a lack of standardised safety-outcome data”
The head of Cochrane Institute is giving his objective opinion on the FACT that there is bugger all standardised safety-outcome data. Typical of your continual vaccine apologetic behavior to focus on his opinion and not on the FACT that there is no safety data. It is the latter that matters.
If there is no safety data, if the adverse harms of these vaccines are not being properly monitored and recorded, then frankly nobody knows whether the vaccines are safe or whether they are fit for purpose.
They may prevent X number of people dying from Flu
But they may actually kill Y number of people along the way.
What we need to know are the numbers X and Y
We don’t have them because nobody collects Y
Yet the industry rolls out the vaccine regardless to millions of people.
The entire thing is a total nonsense and an assalt on human health.
NO they shouldn’t. Nobody should have any vaccine that is not properly tested for both efficacy and harmful adverse effects in a standardised, unbiased and independent way.
No, never my reserach. ALWAYS the research of respected independent medical institutions like Cochrane.
Nothing changes here.
As we’ve discussed endlessly, the flu vaccine peddled to vulnerable adults, helps approx 1 person for every 100 vaccinated. That vaccine IS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE…
It is the most preposterous and ridiculous situation and clearly nothing but a money making venture perpetrated at the expense of human health.
The child flu vaccine only helps 1 in 7 children. One could argue that is also not fit for purpose.
The more crucial element to that one is that the virus given is LIVE virus. We ARE giving young kids the flu and then letting them spread it around the population to older people. Releasing live Flu virus into the population is simply an abhorrent and dangerous practive imho.
Realist you should just admit that you don’t have evidence to back up assertions of harm. The evidence they have seen so far is that child flu vacs have no serious ill effects. Vaccines are safety tested for years. Your points are assumptions and opinions rather than facts.
Changing the timetable for vaccination to the summer would mitigate any risk in the first 2 weeks.
Why not just confirm that you are flat out against all vaccines even those with a near 100% success rate such as polio?
I very plainly stated that the evidence does not exist to prove that vaccines DON’T cause harm. You know very well that the vaccines DO cause a great deal of harm. If they didn’t the US Vaccine Compensation Programme wouldn’t have already paid over $4 billion in compensation to victims.
Who is “they” ? Certainly not Cochrane. Cochrane have stated that there is insufficient standardised testing/monitoring of adverse effects and harms. Where is this “evidence” you are referring to? Again I see no reference links from you, as ever !!!
Just rhetoric and deflection. Vaccines cause a great deal of harm to many people, some are life changing impacts like Guillion Barre Syndrome, some are simply fatal. What people need to know is how much harm, how often, how many people harmed vs helped.
No it wouldn’t change anything. Inject kids with live flu virus any time of the year and they are simply going to spread that virus to everyone around them for anywhere
from 1 to 2 weeks. Unless you physically quarantine kids and their parents for those 2 weeks nothing will change, and vaccine manufacturers obviously know that.
The easiest way to generate demand for your own vaccine is to put the virus out there into the population and keep doing it year on year. Support that with a brutal and utter dishonest Campaign Of Fear and you have a multi billion dollar industry. Simply wicked.
Why not just confirm that you are affiliated to the medical industry and thus declare your uber bias?