Realist we had this discussion when you posted about Shingles. You presented a totally inaccurate visual of blue squares. The cohort data was totally misrepresented to suit your skewed argument. It’s fine if you want to post but let’s not pretend you are the resident expert.
Most people here don’t have the time to go and check your assertions. But they should not be making decisions about their health choices without doing their own research. Your threads are not a sound basis for personal healthcare choices.
It wasn’t inaccurate in the least. It portrayed exactly what it intended to portray, the scale of Shingles instances and deaths compared to the rest of the population.
Your response to that factual data was to make up all sorts of silly stuff. You accused me of saying that 12 million people were being vaccinated, which I never stated. You also repeatedly stated that the NHS wasn’t vaccinating 70yr olds, which I totally refuted and provided the proof for in the Scottish NHS link. You allowed your emotional frustrations to get the better of you. The data was all there, all provided, irrefutable.
And what has any of this got to do with this thread.
You and others are derailing it, presumably deliberately. There’s absolutely no call for it. If you don’t want to discuss the “Serious problems with flu shot safety and effectiveness” then drop out of the thread, same goes for the rest of the little clique of rather nasty people making personal sleights.
Any theories about dandruff mate, I have, like you, researched the conspiracy sites and there is nothing about the Big. Pharma ( I love that phrase, you conspiracy guys use it a lot,) infecting our water supplies and causing dandruff in order to sell anti dandruff treatments. Any heads up (clever uh?)would be appreciated oh wise one!
I caught you totally misrepresenting stats to make your biased point. I’m not prepared to go through the detail again but it’s clear to me you are a charlatan and it’s fine if you want to keep posting your views but I am saying the people here should do their own research rather than trusting your posts. You have your own agenda, that’s fine but let’s not pretend you are neutral or open to any debate. It’s easy to twist facts with tables and data that do not represent reality.
[SIZE=“3”]There you go again. Yet MORE name calling.
There is a big difference between debate and lecture. YOU lecture.
I don’t believe anyone here wants to “stifle debate”, but you don’t know when to stop.
This has just been pages and pages of arguing and bad feeling, and that is NOT friendly debate by any stretch of the imagination.[/SIZE]
You are full of vitriol and lies Annie, I’m so sorry to have to say it.
I misrepresented nothing at all. YOU made up the idea that 12 million people were vaccinated, not me. The diagram/schematic portrayed very simply the number of 65yr olds and over there are in the UK, which was 12 million. Those people ARE the target audience of the Shingles vaccine. Only 50,000 of those people get Shingles each year and of those only a handful actually die from it. The numbers are all TOTALLY ACCURATE and you have at no stage refuted them.
You don’t like the published facts, that’s your prerogative, but if you can’t deal with facts then don’t go calling people charlatans. You just make yourself look ridiculous. You are NHS affiliated, utterly biased and unable to conduct reasonable debate. When the facts are presented to you, with all accompanying links, you simply ignore them. There can be no sensible debate with such a person.
You are a charlatan peddling snake oil and that’s a fact Realist.
You can pretend and overwhelm people here with misleading data, but you still haven’t come back to me about the Polio vaccine and you still haven’t explained why we haven’t had another flu pandemic even though we had them every century and the world is far more densely populated than in 1918. The fact is that the combination of flu vaccine and antibiotics have prevented such a catastrophe. The fact is that the polio vaccine has pretty much eradicated polio. You have no answers to these facts. The facts speak for themselves. Data and studies don’t change the facts.
You’re just embarrassing yourself now Annie, sorry.
I am providing the vital information that people desperately need to make an informed decision.
The threads have discussed the Flu vaccine and the Shingles vaccine. The Polio vaccine has absolutely nothing to do with it. Nothing at all. My data is not the least bit misleading, if it were you would be able to refute the data, the source data, but you haven’t and you can’t. Facts are facts.
No Annie, the FACTS are that the number of deaths from Influenza have been steadily RISING in the past few years so IRREFUTABLY the flu vaccine IS NOT preventing flu deaths.
Here again are the FACTS which you CAN NOT DISPUTE
Number of deaths caused by Influenza over the years in England and Wales
Yep like I said, you refuse to address my points about the flu pandemic, antibiotics and the polio vaccine. Yet you insist this is all a “big pharma conspiracy”. Some of us here know your game. Let’s hope others realise.
Again you just retreated into what is basically an admission of defeat. Side tracking the discussion relating to flu vaccines and trying to divert it towards antibiotics and polio vaccines. This is simply poor show, emotional rhetoric.
Let’s do facts.
DO YOU or do you not accept the flu death numbers I just posted? They are direct from the NHS, in the public domain.
Once again you have ignored my point about the flu pandemic when tens of millions died.
It’s pointless discussing anything with you. You slate vaccines and conventional meds but refuse to acknowledge the massive contribution they have made in saving millions of human lives since their inception last century.
Every year people die from flu and vaccination is the only way we have of preventing its spread.
Realist has helped me in the past so I’m not against him having a say in any thread at all, all I think is we get this same argument each year and what most os us want is a little reminder it’s that time again which mags gave us. If that was then closed as suggested if we want to discuss the flu jab or any other jab have another thread for that. Personally I think I’ve read everything realist has said and decided my risk is great enough to go and get the jab. I’m not a sheep is I were I’d agree with a heck of a lot more people in various threads as I’m often alone in my views of topics. I like realist I wish him well I just don’t need the same lecture every year.
Well said Julie. Realist is entitled to have his own opinion and he may offer info that people want to read, but we don’t need to hear it every year!
I resent the implication that we know nothing and should do more research, because I always do check possible side effects of all medicines & then make up my own mind about using them.
Being diabetic, I have been offered the flu job over the last 30 years and have decided it was worthwhile. It has never harmed me and I haven’t had flu, so I work on the theory that prevention is probably better than cure for me.
I agree. We often have arguments like this one, and I usually avoid them because they are full of pure opinion and no substantiated facts. That’s just pointless arguing.
These figures showing increasing numbers of death from influenza, however, seem perfectly clear to me. Either flu viruses are becoming far more dangerous or, as Realist suggests, the vaccines are becoming less effective.
Or the three types they chose to vaccinate us against aren’t the one that people catch. Or people aren’t taking up the jab because of the fear spread by anti vaccers.
