I have a real fear for my grandchildren and the world they are inheriting…
Even is the present climate situation is maintained we can’t turn back the clock on damage already done to the planet.
People grumble about migration now, it is nothing to the mass migration that will result from drought and water shortages that will happen in future as whole populations leave stricken areas .
It isn’t too late to slow the progression of climate change if enough people play their part.
William Hague says we are in the age of migration and it will get much more and we will have to get used to it .
Basically migrants from horrible countries will come here ( and who can blame them ? ] and the England as we know it will disappear ,and will eventually morph into a third world country .
I too fear for my grandchildren .
Do you mean migrants driven by climate disasters in their countries?
Because if you meant other migrants then I think you need to find a different thread… where you can explain what you mean by “horrible countries”.
But the point about climate driven migrants is interesting. It means that places like Europe and the US, which for now will only be mildly affected by climate change, might find they are forced to accept more incomers. And that’s is interesting because its Europe and US that have the longest track record of being environment polluters - two centuries of that now.
That’s the crux though Muddy…But even if everybody ‘Did their bit’ I don’t think it would have any effect on climate whatsoever, other than locally.
The climate is determining by powers that we couldn’t possibly imagine.
But if you are going to be picky, I suppose that over 2000 nuclear explosions wouldn’t have helped, and you and I are helping to send billions of £’s in arms and equipment to the Ukraine to support a war which releases billions of tons CO2, Methane and other noxious gases every day…
And…How come if CO2 is heavier than air…how does it get up into the atmosphere?
How do the plants absorb it if it’s up there?
There are going to be some very red faces when despite all mans/womans attempts there are still floods in India, wildfires in Australia, tornado’s in America…
The highest temperature since when Lincs?
How long have we been monitoring worldwide temperatures with accurate measurements?
Remind me again how long the Earth has been formed?
It’s common knowledge amongst scientists that we have enjoyed a quite temperate climate for the last few thousand years since the last ice age, which incidentally, we are now exiting…
Before that, the sahara desert was covered with lush jungle. Who produced all the CO2 and Methane then to make it disappear?
They have also found marine life in the Sahara, suggesting that sea levels were higher than they are now.
You repeat the messages from the oil companies. Word for word. It is fascinated to read as you are playing these “don’t worry, its all just a bit of weather” concepts back without even thinking through how clearly false they are.
Take your line here that goes something like “it has been an awful lot hotter in the long history of the earth, this is all normal”. Is that your logic?
You might even go search for info to support this. For example the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM). This occurred about 50 million years ago. “During the PETM, the global mean temperature seems to have risen by as much as 5-8 °C (9-14 °F) to an average temperature as high as 23 °C (73 °F), in contrast to the global average temperature of today at just under 15 °C (60 °F). Geologists and paleontologists think that during much of the Paleocene and early Eocene, the poles were free of ice caps, and palm trees and crocodiles lived above the Arctic Circle, while much of the continental United States had a sub-tropical environment.” (from wiki)
Wow. Proof that the earth can survive massive temperature surges. That happened and we are still here. So why worry about the current one? Is that what you are hinting at?
Mildly affected ?
Southern Spain ( which also has an illegal immigrant problem ) has temperatures this week of over 40 degrees . It also has a serious water shortage problem . Ditto Greece and Italy .
Re horrible countries .
There are very many horrible countries in the world where life is cheap and one of grinding poverty and hopelessness . There are many such countries in the continent of Africa and the Middle East and they are also among the most corrupt countries of the world .
That is why the majority of immigrants come from these countries .
Thanks for the clarifications.
I understand your point about troubled, corrupt countries with terrible poverty even if the term ‘horrible’ might be inappropriate when so many other words might be better. No doubt economic migrants will come from these countries. I’d think that more migrants come from war-torn countries of course (maybe worn-torn also equals horrible). But the main point is that I do not see the need to discuss immigration from these places on a thread about climate change.
And as for “mildly affected”. Of course 40 deg plus is a lot but compared to low lying countries that are being lost to rising sea levels or countries with ravaging drought causing mass starvation I think a short period with a bit of a high temperature is a mild impact, don’t you?
It’s hasn’t been a short time it has been a problem for some years now the reservoirs are empty and the wells running dry. There is talk of restricting water to drinking water only.
If people are leaving countries ie immigrating because of environmental changes I think it’s fair enough to mention it .
Absolutely - fully agree. However your post cited the reasons for people leaving your horrible countries as life being cheap & poverty and corruption. You did not mention climate change - hence my challenge.
Now that we are only talking about environmentally driven migration then that is a very different discussion as these migrants surely stop being purely economic migrants.
I refer you to my previous post .
I am aware of what the discussion is about as I started the thread .
Then I apologise for not reading back to the start but simply referring to what you most recently wrote. End of.
Any challenge to the establishment agenda of climate change is banned on all media including GB News. So how can you suggest that the oil companies are producing propaganda? And from where do they project it?
I knew what Muddy meant from the outset, without going round the wrekin.
Ain’t goin to apologise, for my behaviour in the hot summer of 76 
. all them scantily clad Birds in the park, what’s a geezer sposed to do 
Perhaps there is no basis for a challenge to concept of climate change. Maybe its a fact and its also a fact that our pumping chemicals into the atmosphere is accelerating this change. There is no challenge by responsible news outlets because it is recognised as fact.
Meanwhile the shadowy PR companies employed by the oil companies are slipping briefing notes to newspapers that electric cars are in fact bad, that the UK can’t change the world on its own so why bother, that climate protestors are ruining our lives, that new oil wells are needed for the economy, wind farms are a blight on our landscape, that there is no infrastructure for electric vehicles, that the country can’t afford to go green, etc. And maybe these can be seen as valid points of view. But at the same time they are feeding in more malicious stories into social media. The ones where pretend scientists say they are being silenced. Or that climate change is natural and has happened before. Or that its all a big lie.
You know, the stuff you obviously read.
I don’t need any ‘experts’ to tell me we have climate change, my common sense and observations tell me it is all around me.
Of course there has always been climate variation and the visible results of it but nothing like we see now , the melting of the polar caps is just one example of what industrialisation has done to our world.
Ice caps are melting due to an overall increase in the average temperature on Earth. In 1994, the planet was losing around 800 billion metric tons of ice per year. Today, the planet loses around 1.2 trillion tons per year. Altogether, Earth has lost around 28 trillion tons of ice in the past three decades. That number is accelerating each decade. It is reported that Antarctica is losing ice polar ice at an average rate of about 150 billion tons per year, and Greenland is losing polar ice at a rate of 280 billion tons per year.
Melting polar ice is also a ‘‘positive feedback loop’’. A positive feedback loop is a system in which the results increase the effect on the overall system. The white ice and snow reflect sunlight back into the atmosphere. The dark ocean absorbs sunlight. Less ice and snow results in less sunlight being reflected and more overall melting. Additionally, as ice sheets thin, sections of ice are more likely to break off into the sea.
https://study.com/learn/lesson/polar-ice-caps-melting-causes-effects-facts.html
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I have no interest in trying to changing the opinion of those with ‘heads in the sand’ if they can’t see what is before their eyes that is their choice.
ETA a relation of mine is part of the British Antarctic Survey team and sees first hand the disaster that is happening to our world , I would take his word over climate deniers and big business with vested interests in oil after all what possible reason would TBASTeam have not to be truthful .
So lets assume you are right Lincs, what do you intend to about it other than wringing your hands and claiming that everyone who doesn’t agree with you are either conspiracy theorists or oil company lackeys?
I assume you live in a nice house, with a range rover on the drive, and enjoy a month or two away in some exotic destination…Have you ever thought that YOU might be the problem?
That is a fair challenge. But all your assumptions are wrong. The vehicle parked in front of my house is a 12 year old Renault Kangoo with a 1.6 ltr engine. My last long haul flight was seven years ago and that was for work. My last visit to an exotic destination for holiday was … over twenty years ago. I reckon I drive not much more than five thousand miles a year. I try to grow my own veg as much as possible using no chemicals. I’m not really doing much but equally, compared to others, I’m not doing that much harm.
But this is not about me. This is about recognising that there is a problem, that behaviours are going to have to change, and that the good old days of very cheap oil, thoughtless use of chemicals and ignoring pollution are over.
