I don’t like the way they vaccinate babies with several vaccines at the same time now. Their bodies must get overwhelmed. No one catches all those diseases at once.
One of my children had a very bad reaction to the Whooping cough vaccine, we had to call an ambulance. Our GP was an immunologist, he said not to have any more live vaccines.
I had a bad reaction to Tetanus vaccine, my joints swelled like balloons and I couldn’t walk.
Some people seem to be in denial that these vaccines are not good for everyone.
If one of my children had been brain damaged or anything by my having them vaccinated I would feel terrible
If they caught an illness, it would not be artificially, purposefully given.
That is why I always say that everybody should make their own decision. If is is a wrong decision then you only have yourself to blame, whichever way you decide!
You know your medical records, any problems you may have had with previous injections or medication and nobody can force you to take meds that you don’t agree to.
I have just given facts that apply to the majority of people, but if they have any doubts it is something you should discuss with a qualified medical person.
We are not all the same, so we should all base our personal decisions on what we know about ourselves.
I don’t have my flu jabs to protect other people, I have it to protect myself, and I would never listen to advice from somebody who doesn’t know my medical history!
That is why I do my own research, from people I trust!
On the contrary I’ve read about various so-called pandemics.
The most recent was the shameful Swine Flu pandemic. A complete sham, purposefully over-hyped in order to push untested vaccines on everyone. Fortunately the duff data was exposed before they got too far. They were planning to make vaccinations mandatory.
[I]“‘This was a pandemic that never really was’ according to Paul Flynn, MP who prepared a recent report on the flu pandemic for the Council of Europe.1 The report expresses alarm about the way the pandemic was handled. It criticizes the proportionality of the response and argues that over reaction led to waste of public money, distortion of public health priorities and unjustified fears about health risks. It identifies ‘grave shortcomings’ in the transparency of decision-making processes and concerns about the influence of the pharmaceutical industry. The World Health Organization (WHO) comes in for particular criticism for failing to publish the declarations of interest of members of its Emergency Committee, the group advising director general Dr Margaret Chan on the pandemic response.”
“They found that key scientists had done paid work for pharmaceutical firms that stood to gain from advice they gave to WHO. However, declarations made by members of the Emergency Committee, and of other WHO committees that helped produce influenza preparedness plans, have never been disclosed by WHO. Even the identities of the 16 member Emergency Committee remain a closely guarded secret.”[/I]
This is the kind of stuff that tells us that Big Pharma is definitely not to be trusted, nor either the World Health Organisation or CDC.
Sadly for many people this “scam” Swine Flu pandemic resulted in many people’s lives being ruined such as these:
[size=3]These NHS Staff Were Told The Swine Flu Vaccine Was Safe, And Now They’re Suffering The Consequences[/size]
[I]“Dozens of NHS workers are fighting for compensation after developing narcolepsy from a swine flu vaccine that was rushed into service without the usual testing when the disease spread across the globe in 2009. They say it has destroyed their careers and their health.”
"When nurse Meleney Gallagher was told to line up with her colleagues on the renal ward at Sunderland Royal Hospital, for her swine flu vaccination, she had no idea the injection she was about to have had not gone through the usual testing process.
It had been rushed into circulation after the swine flu virus had swept across the globe in 2009, prompting fears thousands of people could die. From the moment the needle broke Gallagher’s skin, her life would never be the same."
"The date was 23 November 2009 and Gallagher was one of thousands of NHS staff vaccinated with Pandemrix, a vaccine made by pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).
Eight years later, her career in the NHS is a memory and she’s living with incurable, debilitating narcolepsy and suffers from cataplexy, a sudden, uncontrollable loss of muscle tone that can cause her to collapse without warning. Because of her condition, she can no longer work or drive"[/I]
These are the kind of cases that you vaccine apologists like to sweep beneath the carpet and ignore.
Yes it can kill. So can Measles. However such glib statements are nothing but “Campaign Of Fear” scare tactics. What should concern the minds of every individual is how many it kills, what are your true chances of dying from Measles or anything else.
We have seen from the facts posted in this thread that the chances of dying from Measles here is infinitesimally small. Around 0.01% to 0.02%. As the various articles attest, you are more likely to be struck by lightning MULTIPLE TIMES than die of Measles. Again these are the kind of facts that don’t fit into your apologetic agenda. Why would anyone risk the complications of toxic vaccines when their chances of dying from the disease is so ridiculously small?!!
And this is where you let yourself down with your “A Level” training. If you had bothered to actually look at the Public Health recorded figures for deaths in the UK you would see that they carefully record SEPARATELY the deaths due to Flu and the deaths due to Pneumonia. The two are not the same and it is misleading and disingenuous to try and lump the two together.
It is true that a bout of Flu can subsequently be followed by Pneumonia but a person dies of Pneumonia if their immune system is not strong enough. This has bugger all to do with vaccines. People who die of Pneumonia, whether after Flu or not, were always going to die of it. And in many cases they will die of Pneumonia by following the conventional (cough) “wisdom” of their GP’s and health service operatives who will have told them to take paracetamols, neurofens and aspirins to take down a temperature when in fact that is the very last thing they should do. The body knows what it is doing and creates the temperature to prevent the viruses replicating. Conventional GP advice in this respect imho is undoubtedly killing weak elderly people.
The bottom line is that one’s chances of dying from these things is actually tiny and it is only the purposeful “Campaigns of Fear” that make people think otherwise.
What we should be doing is PROPERLY evaluating the available data in regards to :
Chances of dying from whatever disease is involved
Mortality rates of the disease in the UK
The effectiveness of the vaccine
The number of people harmed by the vaccine
The number of people killed by the vaccine
All that data should be examined and weighed up without prejudice, without people ranting on about conspiracy theorists and “anti-vax” movements and all the rest of the Billy BS.
It’s all a propaganda war to stop people doing the research.
Most of the deaths attributable to the “Spanish” flu pandemic were down to pneumonia. The reason they died is because we did not have antibiotics. Some are against antibiotics as well as vaccinations but they are the reason we have such long lives these days.
It’s the flu pandemic that increased the race to create a flu vaccine. But of course the flu vaccine is a challenge because flu is always mutating.
I am of the opinion that it’s those under 65 who should be vaccinated. They are now vaccinating most school children because they are the ones that spread the disease to grand parents. There isn’t really much point in vaccinating the very old because you need an immune system that works. But if they immunise all healthcare workers and more younger people then the risk of catching flu should be greatly reduced.
Of course it’s all down to the WHO getting the strains right in the first place, but that’s a bit of a lottery.
They are working on a universal flu vaccine. Human trials have started so hopefully soon we will have a very different outcome from flu vaccinations.
Working on another vaccine, rather than working on anti-virals to deal with flu as and when people get it.
It should be plain as day to people why they are doing that.
Profit.
Big Pharma doesn’t create cures.
When was the last time anything was actually cured? Can anyone tell me?
The money is in creating problems for which they can they sell a purpose built solution. Vaccines are self-supporting products. You vaccinate people and they spread the viruses to everyone else creating more fear and panic resulting in more people taking up vaccines in a never ending cycle.
They have absolutely NO INTEREST in eradicating measles, or Flu, or any other disease. They NEED those diseases to be able to continue selling their product. Hence the human race is always going to suffer and be plagued with these diseases.
We should have built cures for all these things by now. Measles should be no more a problem than a headache.
How do you suppose you can cure a virus other than eradicating it? I mean a virus is a living organism that keeps replicating. So the only way to stop it is to remove its ability to carry on replicating. If it cannot find a host because the host has a hostile environment due to vaccination then it will eventually die out. If everyone on the planet was vaccinated against measles then measles would eradicated. Hasn’t smallpox gone? Isn’t Polio almost gone?
Between antibiotics and vaccines we have almost removed the most awful diseases from the planet.
Anyone who thinks this is a bad thing is not seeing sense.
Realist if the funding systems were changed and vaccine research and production had no profit motive would you feel differently?
Annie, So people being educated into being more hygienic and washing their hands regularly, hasn’t aided the eradication of disease?
I remember as a child when Polio was rife, it was drummed into us to wash our hands regularly and always after the toilet.
Poor hygiene is one of the ways that disease and virus’s are spread.
I think people knew about washing their hands while Polio was still rife. But washing your hands isn’t going to stop you kissing a friend hello and catching something. Vaccination will allow you to do so.
When I was a child there was no risk of Polio. That was in the 70s. The only person I know who had measles was a Canadian boyfriend I had as a teen/tweenie. He also had mumps in his early twenties. Nobody I have ever known from growing up in the UK had any of these diseases. I grew up when vaccination was being given to all.
Yes Annie, Smallpox has been, for the time being, eradicated.
Polio yes and no.
Turns out that people who had a certain type of Polio vaccine are a problem and that strain of Polio, FROM THE VACCINE ITSELF, has now mutated.
Polio cases have sprung up in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and in Afghanistan and elsewhere. They are calling it Polio Type 2.
There is apparently now risk that these diseases could make a come back. Global warming is apparently melting ice masses which have so far concealed dead animals infected with various viruses. Cases of Anthrax have happened in such places.
Possibly. However it would not sway my determination to first ensure that adequate testing had taken place which was independent, unbiased and peer reviewed and that the government and industry as a whole put in place genuine thorough monitoring systems and protocols to ensure ALL adverse side effects and related cases were fully documented.
Overall I remain immensely sceptical of the entire industry and it’s huge wealth and power on a global basis. I don’t trust the industry one iota.
Whatever the vaccine industry used to be, with Edward Jenner kicking things off all those years ago, it is no longer the case. Pure greed and the race for wealth and power and globalisation have changed things dramatically. What we now have is purely a “Mass Profit” business which will do anything to create the demand for its products.
We have mass media brainwashing and conditioning going on, we have mass campaigns of fear to literally frighten people into having vaccines, we have massive guilt campaigns going on to stigmatise and demonise anyone who refuses vaccines and a whole lot more.
It is just one huge multi-billion dollar industry now. Health has nothing to do with it. There is no money to be had from healthy people. It’s as simple as that. As a result everything now in the field of medicine is focussed on long drawn out treatments and drug courses which create repeat custom. They don’t fix anything they just treat symptoms for as long as they can. Or if they do actually cure one thing, the drugs/treatments then create a new separate problem which then requires its own set of drugs and treatments.
Cancer treatments for example very frequently manage to eradicate the cancer that was detected but then give rise to a new different type of cancer. It happens a lot.
Vaccines are becoming repeat products. No longer do you just get one shot for something. You need multiple shots (apparently !) and in the case of Flu, lifelong shots, every year.
The situation is patently ridiculous and somewhat horrific, at least to me.
There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the actual vaccines themselves are helping spread the diseases through the shedding of vaccinated people and through the weakening of their immune systems. In this way the vaccines generate their own business, their own demand.
What we have therefore, needs to change.
It needs to be brought back under control, reined in, before these greedy moguls actually create something horrific that gets out of control.
However we all know how the world now works and where it is heading. It’s only going to get worse. The FDA WILL in time make vaccines mandatory. We will have no choice once they get their way. Then these conglomerates can milk their cash cow endlessly at the expense of our health.
They don’t care that their vaccines harm and kill many people. They are simply interested in their profits. The dumb masses are entirely expendable, and always have been.
My experience was that most kids got Measles or Mumps and no-one was remotely worried about that. In fact most parents were very keen for their kids to get mingling with Measley kids in order that they were purposefully infected.
I had both diseases, as did most of my school friends.
Parents actually wanted their kids to get these diseases and thus gain lifelong immunity. It was all just a part of Nature and life. It is only the big business vaccine company “Campaigns Of Fear” that have lead us to the current situation where now everyone makes a huge fuss about Measles and makes alarmist claims of it being a killer and so on. Yes it can kill, but the numbers are just tiny.
The media campaigns don’t provide such facts, they just spread fear to generate demand for the vaccines.
I think I will leave this discussion and let you all keep posting different ways to display your opinions. We have already been told what the other members think and if nobody can change the other side’s ideas, it seems to be a waste of time!
At the end of a proper debate, they usually have a vote to decide who is the winner, rather than waiting till people are so bored with hearing the same things, that they give up.
As I have said before, we should all make our own decisions based on research, from qualified people, & our own beliefs. If we do that then we can blame nobody but ourselves for making a wrong decision… whichever way we decide!
They have been working on antivirals. I don’t see the difference in the profit motive. So you’re pro-anti-virals?
Believe it or not Realist whatever the game playing there are just as many people involved trying to eradicate diseases. I’m sure there is plenty of corruption but the world is a big place.
Well that just sums up the struggles humans face living on this planet. Everything has a fight for survival, viruses included. But the longer we can stave off annihilation from these diseases with medium term solutions the more time we have to find new approaches and cures in the longer term. That’s if we don’t destroy humanity in the meantime. We are probably more harmful to our future survival than any virus.
The corruption that may exist in healthcare economics is another issue and is down to our model at present. That will likely be subject to change at some point in the future. Who knows what will replace it. Humanity is at a crossroads IMO.
It’s not about changing people’s ideas. It’s about bringing as much good information to the table as possible so that people can properly assess all the facts and then make more informed decisions for themselves and their families.
This isn’t teenage school/college debating club ! It’s real discussion on life topics. There are no winners or losers, just information to be shared and ideas to be examined.
Yep, qualified people like the Cochrane Institute. Odd though as you don’t seem to accept such peer reviewed research.
I’m pro anything which deals specifically with individuals who contract a disease and leaves the rest of the population untouched. I don’t want my body being harmed by toxic cocktails of untested crap, just because some other person, 1 in 10,000, will die of Measles. Let the industry find a cure for that 1 person in 10,000 and leave the rest of us alone.
Problem is the business model.
Which generates more profits? A product which is foisted on millions of people or a product which is just for a tiny tiny few people?
I disagree.
Health has now just become the latest cash cow for generating mega profits. There is absolutely no money to be made from healthy people. So yes, you are correct that humanity now stands at a crossroads. The globalists have begun a purposeful “war on human health” because it is one of the most lucrative businesses that now exist. We are being purposely made sick in order that we take up their Pharma products. THEY are spreading the bugs and viruses around in order to generate the demand for their products. Products which don’t eradicate anything at all but are part of a repeating cycle of problem-solution resulting in the need for people to keep coming back for those products.
There will be no “cure” for Cancer for example because cancer is of itself, an enormous profiteering business. Billions are being made through all the treatments, training and education and drugs. Mammography is the tool they use to get people on the cancer pathway at the earliest possible time. A tool that serves to ignite the “fear factor” in women so that they will readily jump on the treatment conveyor belt. Mammography is now proven to do more harm than it does good and yet the practice continues. It is now a very wicked and evil world we live in. As a result we now all have to take responsibility for our health, get ourselves acquainted with the truth and facts as quickly as possible and then take the necessary steps to protect ourselves from this “war on human health”.
This has numerous factors and angles, from understanding what they are putting in your tap water to the toxic aluminium in the deodorant you are putting under you armpit every morning. From the wicked levels of sugar in just about every food product to the fraudulent ways the labelling laws operate so that we don’t really know how that product has been made.
We ARE at war, whether we like it or not, whether we bury our heads up our own backsides about it or not. It’s not going to go away any time soon and it will get a great deal worse before it ever gets better.
All those who would seek to harm our health and remove our natural liberties.
Big Pharma is one, most of the medical services, plus the sugar and salt conglomerates. Then there is the EU of course which we must detach ourselves from.
Should anti vaxers and conspiracy theorists be banned from social forums?
Is spreading misinformation that is injurious to people health’s and perhaps lead to fatal consequences tantamount to doing them actual bodily harm ?
Interesting thought, Muddy…but I don’t think banning people from social forums is the answer. People who make their choices based on what they read on a forum, as opposed to medical advice, show themselves up as idiots, frankly. I agree that spreading misinformation and influencing people to make the wrong choice, is bad, but at the end of the day an opinion is an opinion, and choosing to take action based on it, is entirely up to the individual, so long as they are aware of the consequences of that action.
This original thread predates the Covid thing which, is a totally different beast. It seems Swimmy (I may be wrong) was referencing folks who disputed the effects of long standing, tried and tested vaccines for long established diseases, this current thing is different, its new and, in such cases its good to have folks shouting from both sides of the coin, its still to early to be proved right either way. Imo
