Thank you Mags, I’ll have a read. 
From the study I did on vaccines, for A levels, live vaccines inject a low level dose of the illness so your body builds up antibodies, which remain in your body. It doesn’t prevent you from getting the illness, but you may not be aware you have it, because the antibodies you have built up start to destroy the virus as soon as it enters your body.
Many people, who have had the jab, think they didn’t need it because they go through life & think they have never caught the disease. That is often not the case & they may have had measles, but the antibodies do such a rapid job that it appears to be nothing more than a mild heat rash.
The jab does not stop you catching the disease, it makes your body more able to fight it!
I believe that this is the case with all live vaccines, so they do a good job of making sure the effects of the illness are very low… and that is why the medical profession are so keen to promote them… because they save lives and dramatically reduce the possibility of passing it to others.
I hope this report encourages many people to have this jab, but as always, I feel it must be a free choice rather than compulsory. Better education on vaccines and how they work, may make people understand that there will always be a few people who have adverse effects from the jab… but the same situation can happen from eating a peanut or getting a bee sting, so it is wise to make sure the child gets rapid care if they have any strange symptoms.
When I was a child I tried to avoid having my polio jabs 
, but I was so glad my parents had insisted, when I went to senior school and saw that damage it had done to one of my school friends who survived the illness.
I appreciate your explanation Twink, that’s exactly how I understood vaccines too.
Most mothers want the best for their children’s health, the worst part of it is seeing the little youngsters’s lips begin to tremble when the needle goes in, it’s worse for us than it is for them. 
I did worry about the MMR vaccination as l felt it was a lot to bombard a baby’s body with, all in one go. One of my daughters wasn’t given it as she showed a reaction to another vaccination.
Tony Blair, then Prime Minister was questioned at the time and he refused to say, whether his youngest son, Leo was given the MMR vaccination.
I think you were right to be worried Art. Millions of other parents were also worried about the MMR vaccine. Rightly so imho.
[size=3]The Facts About Measles[/size]
“According to a Medalerts search of the FDA Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database as of 2/5/19, the cumulative raw count of adverse events from measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines alone was: 93,929 adverse events, 1,810 disabilities, 6,902 hospitalizations, and 463 deaths. What is even more disturbing about these numbers is that VAERS is a voluntary and passive reporting system that has been found to only capture 1% of adverse events.”
“A person is 100 times more likely to die by lightning strike than to die of measles.”
To date, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) has paid out in excess of $4 billion dollars to vaccine victims.
I personally found this article a very informed read. Quite thorough in its coverage and analysis.
[quote=“Realist, post: 1704003”]
I think you were right to be worried Art. Millions of other parents were also worried about the MMR vaccine. Rightly so imho.
Realist, l would still have my children vaccinated but would prefer them to have vaccinations, one at a time, not three at once.
There was no MMR vaccination when my two older children were babies. They didn’t get Mumps or Measles but one of them got Rubella, which scared me to death, as l was expecting the second one. If l had caught it, it could have damaged the baby l was expecting.
I was tested and it was found that l was immune to Rubella.
I’m sure they vaccinated us against Rubella as teenagers. There was a big hoo ha at the time about getting it during pregnancy. We are so lucky that we can get all these vaccinations and that they are free. Many countries don’t have such programmes. It’s when you travel abroad that you realise. That poor girl who just died of rabies from a puppy bite in the Philippines.
Not all would share your sentiments imho.
“The mother of a Cheshire teenager who was left severely brain damaged by the MMR vaccine has won a compensation award from the government.”
“Robert has frequent epileptic fits, is unable to talk, stand unaided or feed himself, but is not autistic.”
Independent objective thinkers might also find this article interesting.
Merck Fighting Fraud Lawsuits in U.S. Courts on MMR and Gardasil Vaccines
“There are currently two major federal lawsuits against Merck that are being litigated in U.S. courts: a whistleblower lawsuit from former Merck scientists claiming fraud regarding the MMR vaccine, and a lawsuit against the Gardasil vaccine claiming fraud from a 16-year-old girl who allegedly suffered Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) after receiving the Gardasil vaccine.”
"In a lawsuit against Merck that was originally filed in 2010, and continues to this day, Stephen Krahling and Joan Wlochowski, former Merck virologists, claim that they “witnessed firsthand the improper testing and data falsification in which Merck engaged to artificially inflate the (MMR) vaccine’s efficacy findings.”
“The significance of this case, of course, is enormous, beyond measure, as it does NOT primarily deal with the issue of vaccine safety, something the U.S. Government concedes with the federal vaccine court which has paid out billions of dollars in compensation (see quarterly reports from the DOJ here), but with the efficacy of the MMR vaccine.”
“If the vaccine does not even prevent the diseases it is supposed to, how can it be mandated by the CDC to be given to children?”
Good article,
But rich countries with seemingly high vaccination rates are seeing cases spike too. This is because clusters of people are choosing not to vaccinate their children due to the spread of untrue anti-vax messages on social media.
It is worth noting these figures are provisional, the WHO says the true figures will be much higher. And that measles is far from harmless. It kills around 100,000 people, mostly children, every year.
Yet we have our resident sophist blaming it all on the flu vaccine whenever he is questioned and then has the hide to claim that he is the one being lectured to. You only have to look at the relative number of posts from each participant to see who is doing the lecturing.
Bruce, I personally agree with Realist on the flu vaccine but maybe not agree with him on the vaccination of babies and children.
It occurred to me, that babies and children are vaccinated once only, with the exception of boosters.
Yet, mainly older people have their bodies, bombarded annually with a flu vaccine.
Ah yes the great scare story about nasty anti-vaxxers being the cause of Measles outbreaks.
Of course everyone here is well researched aren’t they so they will have read the facts about the US Measles outbreaks and how a plethora of misleading journalistic articles of desperately trying to throw the blame onto the “anti-vaxxer” movement. It is of course Billy BS. As always.
[I]“These claims are all misleading. The anti-vaxxer movement isn’t really on the rise all across America, and measles hasn’t really re-emerged from clinical oblivion or become a fatal threat to everyone’s well-being.”
"Here’s the most important fact that’s lost in these panicky appraisals: Vaccination rates for measles, nationwide, aren’t going down. They’ve been very stable for a while now. In 2017, the most recent year for which data are available, 91.5 percent of the nation’s children below the age of 3 had received their first dose of the MMR vaccine. Five years ago, in 2014, that figure was also 91.5 percent. Go back to 2010, and you’ll find it was 91.5 percent. What about 2005? Again, 91.5 percent. "
"In spite of this long-term nontrend, a canonical media narrative—and one that’s been repeated many times in recent coverage of Clark County—describes a swelling, anti-vaxxer menace to America. "
"What about the tragic fact, so often cited in the news, that measles—a once-vanquished disease—is breaking out again across the country? That, too, is a gross exaggeration. "
“It’s also worth considering that, even today, the incidence of measles—and its total impact on American public health—remains minuscule. Before we had a vaccine, when hundreds of thousands of people contracted the disease per year, around 1 patient died for every 1,000 sufferers”
"Since 2000, there have been a total of 11 reported deaths from measles. While those 11 deaths may have been preventable, and heartbreaking and outrageous, they’re also extreme outliers. The number of Americans who die from measles every year, in this era of resurgence, matches up to the annual number of Americans who get killed by scorpions. " [/I]
[size=3]Paediatrician Explains Fallacy Of Media-Hyped Hysteria About The Measles[/size]
"The media generated high public anxiety. This fear mongering led to the demonization of unvaccinated children, who were perceived as the spreaders of this disease. Rebecca J. McNall, a co-author of the published report, is a CDC official in the Division of Viral Diseases who had the data proving that the measles outbreak was in part caused by the vaccine. It is evidence of the vaccine’s failure to provide immunity. "
"Not only that, but according to a MedAlerts search of the FDA Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database, as of 2/5/19, the cumulative raw count of adverse events from measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines alone was: 93,929 adverse events, 1,810 disabilities, 6,902 hospitalizations, and 463 deaths. The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act has paid out approximately $4 billion to compensate families of vaccine injured children. "
[size=2]“From 2013 to 2017, measles killed 2 people, but the vaccine killed 127 people. The odds of dying from the measles are 0.01 – 0.02 percent, meaning you have a greater chance of getting hit by a lightning bolt multiple times.”[/size]
“These are a few of many facts that the mainstream media is not really sharing, and furthermore, anyone who speaks up about this publicly, especially prominent scientists and doctors, are instantly vilified by the media. The media uses pure ridicule, labelling those who want to have a mere discussion about it and present facts about it as “anti-vax conspiracy theorists.” What we never see, however, are the points made by vaccine awareness advocates, and the points made in this article countered. Perhaps they cannot be countered? And perhaps this is why the main tactics used by big pharma and big media are ridicule and shame?”
Art that is because flu viruses have the ability to mutate & become a different virus ( hence bird flu, asian flu, swine flu) so a one off jab would never work.
They choose the most virulent viruses to try and prevent pandemics, because once that happens many people will die & they cannot provide good care for them all. Flu can kill & that is why many people, with a lower ability to fight the disease, are on the priority list for the jab.
It doesn’t stop you getting a cold, & at that time of year many people do. That is why they think they have flu after they have had the jab but cold is a different virus with similar symptoms… yet far less dangerous!
I have had one, for at least the last 20 years, and suffered no ill effects from them, but once again it is a personal choice! They don’t stop you catching the illness, no vaccine can do that, but they do make sure that your symptoms are considerably reduced.
In the case of a pandemic this means that you are much less likely to die from it.
Twink, You have the flu vaccine every year, yet l have never had the flu vaccine.
But look…it seems the end result is just the same, neither of us, have contracted flu!
On the other hand, I have had every childhood vaccine and l have never caught anything that l was protected against.
Any vaccine can never stop you catching an illness but the symptoms are so trivial in many cases, owing to the build up of antibodies from having the vaccines, that you may not notice you have contracted the disease.
Jabs like diphtheria, polio & smallpox were given to protect all children, but also to make sure anybody who did get it would not pass it onto others before they knew they had it. In my life I have only known 2 people who had polio ( and they had both spent time abroad) and one distant relative who died from diphtheria. So few that I have to feel that vaccinating children was a good move.
With flu, maybe neither of us have been exposed to the virus in the last 20 years, but if there was a pandemic, as there was with Spanish Flu in 1918, I would expect my chances of surviving it to be greater than any who hadn’t had the jab.
Spanish flu infected 500million people in 1918 and killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million victims, including some 675,000 Americans. That is how serious a flu pandemic can be & it is too late to stop it once it arrives. That is why I choose to have my jab every year.
Twink, Regarding Flu, you are talking about what occured over a hundred years ago!
The most common causes of death these days are related to cancer, heart conditions and external conditions.
You are correct Art. Mis-use of statistics, out of context.
Back then hospitals were poor, sanitation was poor, hygiene was poor and 100s of 1000s of men and women were in the military and on the move, often living in cramped unhealthy quarters. Nothing whatsoever like today.
This has been discussed and exposed at length before. The majority of those that died didn’t actually die from the flu itself. A great many actually died from Aspirin poisoning because back then they thought huge doses of Aspirin were the answer. Others died of pneumonia not flu, because they had weak immune systems for the previously mentioned reasons, bad hygiene, sanitation and so on.
The TRUTH and fact remains which is that the flu vaccine only helps about 1 in 100 people that are vaccinated. Those are terrible odds and it means the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not, will be subject to contagion and suffering if there is a widespread flu pandemic.
If/when it happens we will of course see and know that truth for real and then people will realise that flu vaccines are just snake oil.
Your best defence again such things is to understand your body, understand what it needs and give it an abundance of those things regularly. That includes plenty of Vit D3 from natural sunlight, oily fish and other foods, lots of good vegetables and fruits. It means steering clear of refined sugar completely (i.e. just don’t buy bags of granulated sugar) and being ruthless about reading product labels to see how much sugar the maker has piled into them. Like your Metatone tonic for example !!
Your body is an amazing bit of kit but it requires the right fuel.
You obviously haven’t heard details of pandemics. When the bird flu was discovered they were afraid that it may become a pandemic, that is why thousands of birds were destroyed even if they had shown no signs of being infected. Flu can kill and we are no closer to finding a cure than we were 100 years ago. If we had a pandemic today, flu would quickly become a common cause of death during that period, that is why they make so much effort to prevent it.
In many cases Pneumonia is listed as the cause of death, but pneumonia only kills when the body is so weak that there is no way the person can fight it, so I would expect most cases of flu have Pneumonia listed as the cause of death. This isn’t my opinion it is based on what I learned in my A level courses & medical research that I have read because it interests me so much.
I am not trying to tell anybody they are wrong, not to have the flu jab , because I believe it is a personal choice, but I am saying that I would prefer not to take the risk in case a pandemic occurs. People travel so much these days that a pandemic could easily occur from just a small number carrying the virus!