Vegetarian, Vegan and Omnivores

Food & Drink Food & Drink: Chat / Discussions
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Hi

I did say I would start a new thread in the next few days, however things are progressing much faster than I envisaged.

Let’s start with the reasons for eating less meat which I agree with.

Animal welfare, factory farming and disgusting methods of transport and slaughter are things of genuine concern and need to be addressed.

The claims that becoming vegetarian, or in particular vegan, will save the world are however somewhat wide of the mark.

A very interesting read and accurate, written by vegans.

I support many of their objectives, although I do have one quite important observation.

There is no such thing as a 100% vegan plant based diet.

If you just ate plants you have a very good chance of killing yourself.

The reason is that humans require a certain vitamin to be able to have their body to function.

It is vitamin B12.

The link below is to a Vegan Site

Vitamin b12 is not produced by plants, if you want to acquire it in a vegan diet it has to be produced as a supplement.

Vitamin B12, essential even for vegans, is produced as a supplement in factories

It will be interesting to get this one out of the way before we move on to vegetarianism.

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I do agree that having to survive solely on plants, is very bad for your health. We just weren’t built that way, digestively speaking. I, personally, try and consume fortified nut milks and additional supplements as well as mushrooms.

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I am an omnivore but not exclusively. We had Macaroni yesterday. We also enjoy salads. Tonight we are having beef brisket.

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I get rather tired of people who think they know my body better than I do swimfeeders.

People should be allowed to decide for themselves and all those animal rights people who chain themselves to railing and lorries ,well personally speaking they should just leave them there. :wink:

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I have no issues with anyone who chooses to be vegetarian or vegan. Their choice. What I do object to is that, vegans in particular, are always proclaiming the fact that they are vegans like it’s some badge of honour and insist on forcing their ideals onto the rest of us at every opportunity, getting more and more extreme as time goes on. Blockading milk fridges in supermarkets or pouring gallons of milk on to shop floors will not get the message across.

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Hi

Spot on Judd, brilliant post.

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Veggie and vegan diets have become easier follow , the shops are full vegan and veggie alternatives.

Indeed you can get your whole day supple of B12 by having a bowl of Kellogg’s special K or all bran , bran flakes or multigrain Cheerios for breakfast with oat milk and or a vegan yoghurt , all are high B12 .
Nutritional yeast another source high in B12 its easy to add recipes .
I’ve never wanted to convert anyone to my way of life.
The same as I don’t expect meat eaters to belittle my lifestyle

Indeed a meat & dairy free diet to do it properly means planing your meals . It’s often a healthy diet with less snacking on junk foods

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Hi

I would not dream of belittling your lifestyle Ripple.

There are many, very valid reasons to embrace eating less meat.

A recognition that animals have feelings would be a good start, and animal welfare is something I genuinely believe we have not got right in our rush for cheap food.

I am quite prepared to get into a fight, demolishing those who have no concern for the feelings of animals, using science.

At the moment I am trying to establish , rationally, how the claims of some of the more extreme vegans, are not only wrong, but dangerous.

There is no such thing as a safe vegan diet without vitamin B12, and these supplements ate produced in factories, not in plants.

Define vegetarian.

My sister and niece consider themselves to because they do not eat anything with eyes.

Unless you are very picky indeed this seems to me to be an acceptable definition.

They have milk, butter, cheese, eggs and ice cream.

Stopping either from eating milk chocolate would be a very dangerous occupation.

This is a definition of vegetarian I am quite happy with.

I would like to hear the views of others.

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I have experimented with all sorts of different diets - from being a vegan (I lasted just 10 days - it was too difficult for me!) to a full on carnivore.

I agree that everyone should decide for themselves what suits them while researching the topic sufficiently.

Personally I am undecided what is ‘best’ - and will probably continue to experiment, however I think there are some things worth mentioning:

  • Every plant has defence chemicals (they don’t want to be eaten and can’t run away like animals, so they defend themselves with compounds) and pretty much all of these can play havoc in your digestive system.
  • While I am a big fan of species-appropriate diets (current general consensus that this is animal foods along with fruit) I also think there is merit in considering possible positive side effects of plant foods (eg, bio-hacking). Some of these are already commonly known, such as the effects of certain herbs and plant compounds.

There are some things I am personally quite sure about:

  • Seed oils are bad (stick to animal fats, butter, coconut oil or good quality olive oil but not when cooking)
  • Processed sugar is bad (so anything containing added sugar, whether it be in the form of fructose, sucrose or ‘organic brown sugar’).
  • Sugar in the food matrix (i.e when you eat fresh fruit) is not the same thing - it does not appear to have the same negative effects on the human body if eaten with a species appropriate diet.
  • Chemical additives should be avoided - you don’t need them in a species appropriate diet - and they wouldn’t be needed in regenerative farming.

That’s just some that spring to mind, for more I would recommend a couple of books:

The ‘best’ advice I’ve heard is to experiment until you find the diet you thrive on :023:

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I’m a vegetarian who enjoys KitKats
I have been veggie since the age of 5 or 6 after discovering the remains of the Christmas .turkey it broke my heart.
I don’t think anybody would disagree with the fact B12 is needed to maintain a healthy body.
To fixate on B12 isn’t naturally occurring in large enough quantities in plants ….well all meat eaters also eat fortified foods many also choose to take extra vitamins and mineral supplements.

Vegan extreme , Indeed anything done to extreme that includes all diets can be detrimental to health.

I would never want to be vegan although I respect any adults decision follow a meat and diary free diet .
However I don’t believe a vegan diet for children is advisable.

Off to enjoy hot chocolate :wink:

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Personally I like meat and speaking generally I don’t like vegetables so the choice is clear.

What! waste good food?

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Hi

However reasonable some people may be in their choice of diet and their reasons for it, we are in the age of social media and the Internet.

This means that an awful lot of absolute misinformation is circulating, some through misunderstanding, some deliberate.

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That’s really interesting Ripple - have you not eaten any meat products since then? If so I bet there are plenty of scientists who would love to study you to compare you to meat eaters :lol:

Have you noticed any differences in health compared to friends you grew up with or others the same age as you?

I think a lot of it is we just don’t know yet - the jury is still out over which diet is ‘best’ for humans and there are lots of conflicting studies, for example in some countries vegetarians live longer, in others, meat eaters do. Theory is that in those countries each group usually also does other healthy activities or leads an otherwise healthy lifestyle.

Not sure if it’s this video, but I think he talks about epidemiology and healthy user bias here:

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Hi

Science is a voyage of discovery, and sometimes the most difficult thing to do is to unlearn things which have accepted as true for years, or generations, or centuries even, which turn out to be wrong.

Some of these are big things, for example, the earth is the centre of the solar system and the sun revolves around it.

Others are much smaller, but just as important to our understanding of things.

It is not that long ago, that many of these things were just reported in obscure scientific journals.

Even then they caused controversy amongst those who understood them.

In the last 20 years, which seems an age, but which in reality is a very small blip in time, life has changed beyond all recognition.

We have the internet and social media, the free and unregulated exchange of information and beliefs, true, false and everything in between…

We have influencers, a very recent development, people who can command great numbers of followers in things they simply do not understand.

The Kardashians know an awful lot about fashion and how to influence people and naff all about science, but their word is treated as gospel.

Tiktock is manipulated by the Chinese to alter perceptions amongst the young.

The entire thing is a nightmare, a minefield of unregulated statements and misinformation.

Think of this in a different way, an entirely different perspective.

Who has the most to gain from this?

In monetary terms and political terms, those who take the most long term, strategic view, the most cynical view of all.

Those who have and still will accept tens of millions of casualties.

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Morning Azz
Yes it’s true , however who knows what went into food in the late 50s & 60s
I’m very fit , take no medication apart from the occasional paracetamol for headaches , I’m almost 5ft.6 and weigh in at just under 9st.

I consider myself very lucky health wise .

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One of the concerns about meat production is, rightly, animal welfare. The worst are the factory farmed animals - vast sheds where hundreds (thousands in case of fowl) are raised in cramped conditions with little or no access to natural light or outdoor space. So presumably the best would be at the other end of the scale and completely wild animals.
That’s why the best meat I can get is wild deer and boar whose numbers need to be managed. The meat is a spin off from the hunting to maintain the numbers of these animals. It is naturally organic and ethically sound. But I appreciate not to everyone’s taste.

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Hi

Good for you Rip, I am very pleased you are in good health.

It is such a great place to be.

I have not always enjoyed good health, some serious injuries and complications

Almost 21 years ago a major heart attack, a quadruple bypass with a 1 in 3 chance of surviving.

I built myself up to being very fit indeed.

A cautionary tale, well two in fact.

I had a part time member of staff, brilliant at his job and as fit as they come.

He used to do endurance racing, across desserts.

He passed every medical he had.

He dropped dead with a heart attack walking across the bridge from the office to ASDA one lunchtime.

Until 26 months ago I was very fit, did all sorts.

No warning at all and then bang, 6 heart attacks since then and a load of other things.

Life can change in an instant, make the absolute most of your good health.

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Mr S keep hanging on in there .

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From tge Daily Mirror

Vegan restaurant says it will start selling MEAT due to lack of customers

Owners of a vegan restaurant in Taunton, Somerset have been branded ‘close-minded omnivores’ for their decision to turn their plant-based eatery into one that serves meat

From the MIT technology We’re on track to set a new record for global meat consumption

That’s a problem for the climate. But the solution can’t be to tell people to stop eating meat. April 2021

From the Lancet. Globally, average per-capita consumption of meat is increasing , although there are large disparities in intake between different parts of the world. Oct 2021

I eat meat and vegetables, a gherkin on my Mac burger .

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See it’s about choice…people don’t like that taken away from them and the wagging finger telling them off for eating a pork chop!

Vlad…erm… :face_with_raised_eyebrow: :joy: