Unbelievable - Pregnant Woman Killed By Dogs!

Not that I will continue to argue the point - because so far you haven’t provided a single shred of evidence to support your prejudice view apart from alluding to alarmist stories in the press, but when you say "can’t see beyond their nose " you’re referring to the kennel club, all the zoologists who’ve researched nature/nurture, people who own them (i.e me)?

Or did you once see a staffie outside Tescos and that’s what you’re basing your entire “ban them” argument on? if that is the case you will be waiting an extraordinary long time for that “one day” to appear - thank goodness.

There are quite strict laws here regarding ‘potentially dangerous dogs’ and any incident is followed up, paperwork checked, property checked, licenses checked etc etc. We have personally known of a few incidents, in one case, a German man down the road, had his pitbull type dogs removed from him until such time as he made his property safe. He erected a huge metal cage type thing in his garden. The dogs were gone for approximately 5 months, then when the property was reinspected the dogs were returned. You can read the laws regarding dogs in Spain here.

It’s as we always argue Julie1962 - it’s about deed not breed and it also about looking at the other end of the leash to find the root of the problem.

We can but try :cry:

I think everyone is of a like mind on this but really it should be taken a step further. There is no need to own a potential killer of an animal. I’m sure loads of people would love to own a puma - cougar - tiger - lion but they are not allowed to but they can own a cat, which to all intents and purposes hasn’t got the fire power to kill you - sorted. Admittedly there are so many breeds of dogs but it wouldn’t take a lot of headwork to slap a label on the dangerous and unsuitable ones.

Just because an animal appears docile doesn’t alter the fact the potential to harm is there - as in having a tame lion on a lead. The loving tame lion owner would argue the point as eloquently and vociferously as many have spoken in this thread. We can form very strong family type bonds with all manner of creatures but to expose others to them isn’t rational because such a bonded person is not at all rational it seems to me as they are too emotionally attached.

This really is the problem with starting an argument with a dog owner. You are, in effect, insulting a member of their family and the dog owner instantly goes on the defensive, or offensive depending on their character, but you can be sure they are very rarely objective. Very hard work …

Just because an animal appears docile doesn’t alter the fact the potential to harm is there - as in having a tame lion on a lead. The loving tame lion owner would argue the point as eloquently and vociferously as many have spoken in this thread. We can form very strong family type bonds with all manner of creatures but to expose others to them isn’t rational because such a bonded person is not at all rational it seems to me as they are too emotionally attached.
Marks quote

Agree with the above …

And - you’re right - I would love to own a ‘cheetah’ - but I’m not that stupid, they are not ‘pets’ - just as some dogs are not …

We are agreeing though because no one thinks they are suitable pets for everyone, just like my little Chihuahua is not suitable for everyone. It really isn’t the breeds fault any of this, it is the other end of the lead that is the biggest problem.

Dog that attacked Mollie has terminally stupid owners who have not trained him right, keep him in the wrong location and take no precautions to keep him or anyone else safe.

We are not going to agree on this one Julie …
The owner may be at fault, for not ensuring his dangerous animal is not secure when around people. My point is, the animal should ‘not’ be around people or other animals, in the first place.
Putting people at risk and blaming the owners, doesn’t cut it with me - it doesn’t solve the problem at all

Well we can’t agree if anyone wants the total death of an entire breed or all dogs. But I am sure if we are all looking sensibly at the question we could agree.

I have said these dogs should only be owned by certain people and in certain places. I can’t say kill them all because where will that end, what dog would be safe ?

It would seem an impossible task to go down your route.
I have seen many pit bulls some are crossed breeds, with dubious owners.
Whats happening about that - nothing.
Gambling on the breeds fighting is also rife …which sickens me …

When the pit bull ban came into force we saw people flouting the law, I know people who carried on breeding and that should have been stopped. Not because I agree with the ban but because that is the law. What I don’t understand given that the law is in place and not working is how banning more breeds will help ? Surely make the law work and prove it helps before moving onto other breeds would be a better way forward ?

But where would we stop if breeds are to be banned ?

which breeds would we be left with ?

Somewhat patronising conclusion to draw I think.

I find it quite difficult to enter into any kind of rational argument with anybody calling for the end of dog ownership whose argument is based on … well nothing.

I have asked before and will ask again- where is the evidence - what evidence are you basing your rational argument upon.

Here’s something interesting:-
in 2010
3 people died as a result of dog attack.
5 died from hornet, wasp and bee sting
2 were killed as a result of being run over by a bicycle
29 people drowned in the bath tub

Should we get rid of bicycles, baths and exterminate all wasps, hornets and bees?

I see you are one for statistics. Well go visit this page where there are plenty. Found by a Google search.

[SIZE=“4”]DO NOT VISIT THIS PAGE IF EASILY UPSET AS CHILDREN WITH FACIAL INJURIES ARE FEATURED.[/SIZE]

Horrific statistics and pictures.

Dangerous Dogs in the UK

Statistics? Not how I learnt them. I find it terribly hard to take seriously any website that features pictures of facial injuries to children and advertises best music, best films and car hire in the left hand column. The statistics are not referenced - very suspect.

Horrific I agree and anybody that leaves a dog and child unsupervised needs their head testing and don’t really deserve to be in charge of either.

Well the little I read of the page produced this …

I mean come on, that must surely shock you too.

I don’t intend to read all the page as it is just too awful.

And yet the NHS website reports:-

"How common are bites?
It is hard to estimate how common bites are as records are usually only kept of bites that were serious enough to require hospital treatment; which in England is around 6,000 cases of dog bites and 2,500 cases due to other bites, including human.

Reports of serious dog attacks resulting in fatalities, usually involving young children, receive a lot of media coverage. However, such cases are very rare in England: in 2010, there were two deaths as a result of dog bites".

We really could go back and forwards couldn’t we?

Yes indeed but … consider if you were a cat lover only. We wouldn’t be having this discussion now would we :wink: . Both animals are loving pets and provide a great deal for their owner but cats don’t eh … rip people’s faces off or kill them either. If all dog lovers were cat lovers and owners only there would be no problem at all.

Statistics converted to a mathematical formula …

X = Great many injuries and fatalities
Y = Very few injuries if any or fatalities

Cats + Dogs = X
Cats - Dogs = Y

Conclusion Dogs are the fly in the ointment.

If we were cat lovers ? well some of us love cats as well as dogs.

TBH I have been hurt more by cats than dogs, dogs have certain bite inhibition in my home cats don’t seem to learn not to bite hard or not to scratch which is why when we had/have small children I prefer dogs in my home and not cats, when we are child free we will consider cats again as we do love both cats and dogs and really like cats and dogs together.

It’s all getting a bit contorted now isn’t it?

Once statistics become converted to a mathematical formula I kind of glaze over and lose the will to live!

Anyway - must dash I must take the dog for a walk, let’s hope he doesn’t attempt to injure (or worse) anyone. I think we’re both more likely to be seriously injured by the all the 4x4s in the country lanes making their way out for the evening having had a tipple or two (or 10) before leaving home.

BIB: that isn’t true.

It’s true that some breeds might be more likely to bite if we look at statistics gathered on biting and aggression. There are many reasons for this. One likely reason is that most dog breeds once served specific functions for humans. Some were highly prized for their guarding and protective tendencies, others for their hunting prowess, others for their fighting skills, and others for their “gameness” and tenacity. Even though pet dogs of these breeds rarely fulfill their original purposes these days, individuals still carry their ancestors’ DNA in their genes, which means that members of a particular breed might be predisposed to certain types of aggression (From the ASPCA Website)
[I]
There are inherited ways of behaving that are particular to some breeds or types of dogs that make it more likely for individuals to grow up to use aggression where others would not. Because no two dogs are exactly the same, individuals will differ too. For example some breeds are intentionally bred to be more reactive and some to be “wary of strangers”, which might make them more likely to be defensive if approached. In every breed there will be individuals that use aggression inappropriately and others that will not.

Aggression is not a single characteristic, however there are breeds of dogs that have historically been used for specific purposes, such as for fighting dogs or other animals, or for guarding. Whilst these breeds may not be any more likely to show aggression, because of their physical and temperamental attributes if they do show aggression it is likely to have more serious consequences. Persistence in attack coupled with strong jaws can cause serious injuries[/I] (Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors).

I once asked the police why they don’t use Doberman’s or Rotts (staffies were not so commonplace back then) and the answer was: they are not predictable enough.

These dogs get a reputation for a reason.

and it also about looking at the other end of the leash to find the root of the problem.

We can but try :cry:

I think you and Julie oversimplify the matter. Not every dog owner is a bad owner - their skills will differ just as much as parental skills do in humans. If aggressive breeds are removed as an option for the general public, it solves the problem.

Here is a link - read the link in its entirety and tell me if you could any of those children in the face and say people have the right to own any dog they choose.

If people cannot display a responsible attitude, then the decision has to be made for them by the authorities. I would never, ever, put the requirement for owning a non-essential animal over and above the safety of everyone (including other animals).

You may both like to defend staffies but it does tend to be them in the majority of attacks - that could be down to the type of person that chooses to own them but it makes little difference to anyone on the receiving end of an attack. A chap who worked for us had two Staffies (which, imo, are amongst the ugliest dogs imagineable) when he moved in with his girlfriend and her children. He assured the girlfriend that the dogs were well behaved - shortly afterwards, the two dogs shredded her three cats.