Its governed by the UK like Africa was.
Not quite accurate but hey whose arguing itâs a sh*thole
That makes all the difference. And to be fair to you both, two people who have absolutely convinced themselves that they are right. Nothing is going to change your minds. Everyone else is wrong.
So no point debating this, is there?
Not sure on the word âRightâ, this is all new territory, right from the last chapter means nothing here.
That is what is being done e. g. between Sweden and Norway through customs posts. Between Poland and Belarus you find a 2.5m fence which will be converted into a more solid structure (as the polish parliament has decided). The EU is protecting the SM on their territory. If there was no GFA and potentially no troubles in the future I guess you would be happy with a hard border between ROI and NI, would you not?
It is a decision of the EU member states to protect the SM, not a decision of some secret entity named âBrusselsâ.
But yes, all that should not be neccessary. In the world which we actually live in, it is.
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I would not say that. Sure, there are some who would never change their mind or stance towards a subject. However the debate may reveal ideas or thoughts that you did not have before. Or it can manifest your opinion even more. Personally I like controversial discussions with âunchangeableâ people because it reminds me that there are different ways to think about a topic.
Small funny example: on the day when L.Truss resigned I was on a Greek island and talked to some couples from the UK about it. One (elderly, retired) couple were huge fans of B. Johnson, saying things like âhe is a maverickâ, âhe has done great things to the UKâ, âit is so great to be out of the EUâ. It was the first time that I ever met somebody in the real life who would say something (so irrational IMO) like that. You see, altough it may be very difficult to accept, we have to accept that some people see things very different.
Do you actually listen to your own advice strathmore?
The British public should have talked to you first before making the decision to leave the EUâŠ
Your attitude suggests that you consider us plebs should not have been trusted with a referendumâŠ
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Do you have a problem with
âthere will be no downsides only considerable upsidesâ
âthere will be no checksâ
âthe easiest deal in historyâ
âI will not allow any divisionâ (NIP related)
âwonderful new opportunitiesâ
âthey need us more than we need themâ
?
I do not recall all of the other lies. If you DO NOT have a problem with those statements, then in my very personal opinion I guess you should not be trusted with a referendum of that magnitude.
I simply want my country back, I want to see British people working in British factories producing British products. I want to see British farmers growing food for British people. I want to see British fishermen fishing in British waters with nobody else poaching within the limits.
I want to see Britain supplying our own energy using coal and gas fired power stations if necessary.
I donât want to be ruled, governed and bullied by the EU, WEF, or anyone else who wants to sell Britain out and use it as a dumping ground for all the waifs and strays of europe.
Anyone who leaves these shores should not be entitled to vote in either general elections or referendums, and their pensions and benefits should be revoked.
I want to see the sale of German vehicles ceased in this country and replaced with British built vehicles from British factories with British steelâŠIt might take time, and I will not see the conclusion however it endsâŠBut while ever I have a vote I will use it to cut out the cancer caused by foreign interference and especially the EUâŠ
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Hi OldGreyFox,
thank you very much for that honest description of what you would like âyourâ country to be like.
You are probably not alone with those wishes.
I can imagine that the native people(s) in Canada, US, New Zealand, Australia, India think/thought the same.
However, those days are over, no matter what.
Donât make it âRightâ though. 
The UK has said repeatedly there will be no hard border on the island of Ireland and there doesnât need to be one, as admitted by the EU in their SmartBorders 2.0 conclusion.
To think that customs checks are done at borders is simply absurd, even in the EU these checks arenât done on borders. There is also still a lot of confusion over the common travel area (freedom of movement) and customs borders (boundaries for goods duties/regulations etc).
The weaponising of Ireland by the EU with Olly Robbins and Theresa May has been disgusting. There is no solution to the Irish border problems through the Irish Protocol. We should tear the whole thing up and walk away, it makes no sense to solve a problem that doesnât exist through bureaucracy. What the EU is doing with the Westminster Framework is hiving off Northern Ireland and forcing it into the EU.
Only 9% of goods travel from NI into the Republic - where just about all of the Republics goods travel through the UK, we should be protecting the UK single market as the priority, not the EUâs. If the EU want to protect their single market with a hard border then they should do that and do it in their own territory, not in ours.
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The British Empire is long behind us and we remain great friends and allies with the countries that were part of it. So much so, monarch is still the head of state for a large amount of them.
And in case you hadnât realised, the EU Empire (which is what it is) is guilty of all the things you hate.
You might want to understand better, the EU, what it is and how it works.
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Tell me Strathmore, what are the downsides of having an independent sovereign country ? Iâd love to hear them.
As for âeveryone else is wrongâ just bear in mind the 2016 referendum result which was massively in favour of leave, the Brexit Party where within a year of Farage creating, it became the biggest single party in the EU Parliament with a 100% leave agenda and the 2019 General Election where Boris Johnson got an 80 seat majority to âget Brexit doneâ.
Youâre the minority, Strathmore and if you look at how the EU is becoming more eurosceptic (by the thousands) by the day, its only a matter of about 6 years before the failing EU fails completely and nations (in particularly Hungary, Poland and Italy) walk away too like we did.
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I was being facetious 777 but seriously I think the EU is the worst possible thing that could have happened to Europe and the relationship between the UK and the countries therein.
It even causes friction between the countries who are membersâŠ
Contrary to what you and strathmoor think, I very much accept all europeans as friends, and would welcome trading openly with any one of them (including German vehicles, which I consider are some of the best engineered vehicles in the world) but by voting for brexit, you assume I am anti-european. Iâm not!
But the EU is the most corrupt organisation in the world today and I expect its demise shortly, as other countries realise they are being taken for fools and used to line unelected power hungry scoundrels pockets. We can then set about making beneficial and rewarding trade deals with like minded countries, and not be bound by rules and regulations that have nothing to do with trade and mutual friendship between the countries of EuropeâŠ
Like all empires, the EU will be destroyed from within, I just hope that Iâm still around to witness it and say âI told you soââŠ
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UK ascension into CPTPP imminent now. Compared to the EU single market (which is getting smaller and smaller by the day), the CPTPP blows it out of the water.
Try doing this as an EU member LOL
Difficult to tell if it is ârightâ or âwrongâ. 
Hi OldGreyFox,
please do not assume that you were anti-European. I do not assume that. Even if I would, you still would have your (good) reasons to be so and of course everybody has a right for an opinion.
No no, I am just an interested observer. Hovever I prefer discussions based on facts rather than assumptions. Still I have to admit that it is difficult, if not possible, to tell real hard facts from fiction, especially as we cannot judge sources in the Internet. Ask a question on a search machine and you will find all answers that you can think of. Which one is the truth?
In my opinion the EU has huge potential for reforms. Being no fool I do not expect to many of them being done. It is just too convenient to be an MEP, receiving a nice salary, a free medical care for all the family, a pension MUCH higher than they deserve. Ok, hold a sausage in front of a dog and expect it (the dog) not to eat it.
At least the first step to remove the principle of unanimity are discussed, looking at what V. Orban or the Polish gov are doing. That is more than I expected.
After having followed the Brexit-saga for some years now I firmly believe that it was the right decision for the UK to exit. Even if two thirds now believe that it was wrong (if the published numbers are true), I am sure that the UK will be better off ânot insideâ the EU. I do not mean âoutside the EUâ but ânot insideâ, a small difference.
Your future lies outside Europe and minor glitches like tomatoes should be no problem at all for the UK because they are purely technical.
What do you think why the UK does not walk away? The solution seems to be just so simple, if you are right.
Are/were the responsible people blinded by the âfantasticâ and âoven readyâ deal? I mean that is how it was sold to the public. Even Sunak now praises NIs âspecial placeâ and calls it the âmost desirableâ market situation worldwide.
Why donât they just tear it up, trade purely on WTO rules (or leave the WTO all together) and stop those endless futile negotiations?
Exactly !
The only way to leave would be to walk away with no deal. It was Farage who coined the phrase âno deal is better than a bad dealâ and instead we ended up with a bad deal because May and Robbins colluded with the EU to create a framework that would tie us to the EU forever, with the Irish Border used as a weapon to keep us in there.
The writing was on the wall when Truss had to sack Kwarteng and he was replaced with remainer-in-chief Jeremy Hunt, who knows nothing about finance, was useless as health secretary, loves the EU and praises the CCP. It was right there !
So we couldnât have Liz Truss (who the membership voted for overwhelmingly to keep Sunak out) and so Truss was booted out by the party and replaced with Sunak without a vote. The same with Ursula Von Der Leyen in the EU.
Now Sunak has his version of the Windsor Framework (which is a framework around the NI Protocol by the way) and the EU has another. The one that will get signed is the EUâs version (same happened with Heath in 73) which, when written into international law via the Vienna Convention will mean the UK is pretty much in the EEA and unable to divert, so we have the Irish backstop from Chequers that David Davies is praising even though he resigned over it when May brought it out.
The only way out of this is to destroy the tories and let labour in. After 2 years of Labour destroying the country even further it will be the end of Labour and finally we can elect a truly conservative Brexit focussed party that will tear everything up. Thats about the only way the UK can survive as well because within those 2 to 4 years of chaos, the EU will try and mothball our money, industries and everything else, flooding the country with migrants and handing Northern Ireland to the Republic.
I was hoping the DUP would reject the Windsor Framework but it looks unlikely. In the meantime, the Reform Party is the Brexiteers new home.
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