The Windsor Agreement Stitch Up

Oh, I learned a new word “swerving”. Did not know that one.
If I was swerving, then it was not intentional.

The idea behind my point was: 200m voters are given the task to elect someone to lead “the EU”. Those “leaders” may be persons from one of the 27 member states. We probably agree, that most people do not even know the candidates of the other countries. I assume this because I do not know the candidates for Greece or Portugal or …
That is why I guess that every country would elect the candidates from their own country (which they know and whose language they speak). That would be tricky as far as proportional representation is concerned. It is impossible I am sure.

Compared to the US where there are effectively two candidates (speaking English and being from the same country), the task is way more easy. And yes, you are right, the US are managing this task (chosing one of two).

You have no idea why people voted the way they did, least of all me. You would like to think you do, because it suits your inferior opinion of the working classes and makes you feel superior…
Well for your information Strath, I didn’t listen to any of the hype from either side, instead I realised what being a member of the common market that morphed into the European Union, was from actually living through those years and seeing the UK turn into the dumping ground of the world and it’s industries run down and destroyed. Before you start defending the EU, I’m well aware that they are not the sole reason for the UK’s decline, but they have been instrumental, if our governments over the years were the bullets, the EU was the gun.
I don’t have issues with the French, German, Dutch or any other other member of the EU, I consider them good friends and long for the day that the working people of Europe will see how they have been fooled by the elite of the EU. I hate the EU and all it stands for, and I would continue to vote brexit every day of my life, whatever the cost.

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You don’t understand percentages then? Really, they are not that complicated.

It shows how undemocratic the EU is. At the last nomination of the EU leader, Von Der Leyen wasn’t even on the ballot.

Rutte was up for the top job, but it would be inconceivable for the Netherlands to dominate Germany, so, Rutte got sidelined and they were given Von Der Leyen to put things right.

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I understand them perfectly thanks.

He is a typical EU nationalist.

Still, the French riots make good TV these days.

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But do you understand percentages? Your earlier post demonstrates that you equate second largest at 13% with by far the largest at 42%. You have a unique grasp of maths. This was the very mistake that so many tories failed to notice and went around saying they need us more than we need them. Which was patently not true. It was all so much twaddle back in 2016 and during the negotiations. Any grown up could see it was twaddle, which meant the EU negotiators could see it was all twaddle. The tory faithful and desperate leavers, liked the sound of it so much that they fell for it.
Back to the main point. You can moan all you like but the future years will see the UK move back closer to the EU and not your ill-thought through notion of moving further away. Keep moaning, no-one is listening.

So after much shouty language, here and in Westminster (but not Stormont as the DUP refuse to behave like a grown up party) the Windsor Framework sailed through parliament with a near unanimous vote in favour.
There were merely 22 votes against, and these from the usual anti-EU nutters (Bone, Cash, Chope, etc.) or by Johnson coat-tail riders (Rees-Mogg, Patel, Dorries, etc). There was also a bunch of no votes - it looks like tories who still think Johnson can return as PM so they want their fence sitting to look like decisive support, go figure (Shapps, Buckland, etc.). A dismal bunch of no’s and don’t knows who are now clearly out of touch with the nation’s mood.
Now perhaps we can move onto a different phase of Brexit where there is sensible, cooperative dialogue with the EU to find mutually beneficial ways of working together, and leave behind the Johnson era of always trying to demonstrate that everything is a ‘win’ against the EU, regardless of how it means losing out in the long run. About time too.

I understand maths very well thanks, and I also understand economics.

The USA is the biggest trading partner with the EU at around 18% of the share and the UK is the second biggest trading partner with around 13%. Using your argument, the USA is only a small market as well, just like the UK (actually <5% more than the UK) and certainly a lot less than the 35% if you include everyone else like you did earlier. So would you be quite happy getting rid of the USA ? I doubt it LOL, or how about China, they are about 3% less than the UK in terms of share. Get rid of them ?

Oh … there goes another one of your arguments LOL

You also seem obsessed with referring to your opinions as the ones that “grown ups have” and if you disagree with them “your not a grown up”. There is a very strong message in that paragraph your really not going to like but I’ll leave it to you to work it out.

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If you agree with Strathmore your a grown up LOL

Just when I thought I’d heard it all.

Now we have people you refer to as anti-EU nutters because they didn’t vote or abstained but, once again you’ve completely missed the point

22 - No Vote (actually it was 29 but I’ll use your figures)
48 - Abstains (which is about the equivalent of 24 noes)

That means its 46 noes which means Sunak needs labour votes to get the WF through Parliament. That was the vote on the draft - the second vote should tear up the whole thing when parliament realise they are voting for Sunaks version which is completely different to the EU’s version. The same happened under Heath with regards fisheries (back in 73 because like Sunak the bill hadn’t gone through proper scrutiny and it was rushed through). I’m surprised the media hasn’t picked up on this morsel of history, but as they are all remainers (except GB News and Talk TV) I’m not surprised.

The only different phase of Brexit we need is the one where we actually leave. Without a trade deal and without being part of any EU treaties either.

I did like your point a few posts ago about the level of EU exports to the US, without any trade agreement. What is it that the EU is doing that the UK is failing to do? More, how come all you Brexit fans insisted that leaving the EU was necessary to grow exports to the US? Clearly is absolutely possible to successfully export to the US whilst being in the EU. The UK never needed to leave the EU to export to the US - the UK just needed to export better. Like the EU is so very successfully doing.
Anyway, those hard core Brexit days are behind us now. As are the child-like politics of Johnson and friends.

The USA is the biggest market for the UK too. Where we differ is that the UK trades mostly in services, thanks to the demise of UK industries (especially UK steel which the EU trades about the highest with) through EU funded grants and single market rule restrictions (such as state aid). You need to look at the bigger picture instead of cherry picking strap-lines from Remainerpedia.

Now we are out we can start to grow our manufacturing base again and have the state help fund growth, thats what is terrifying the EU right now and why the Windsor Framework has been agreed with the two unelected leaders of the UK and the EU. It prevents the UK from regulatory divergence from the single market (amongst other things).

How are the grown-ups getting on in France ? I heard the police and the fire brigade grown-ups have now joined with the grown-up people to oppose grown-up Macron ?

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I wish your dreams of re-growing the UK were true but I’m not seeing it. Meantime, the pertinent point is that a country in the EU can successfully grow its exports outside the EU, even to the US. You have adequately demonstrated that.
But hey, I’m even going to agree with you - the demonstrations by a small group in France are purely a childish indulgence in reckless demonstrations. For me, it is very child-like behaviour as the people burning things are the very young people who would have to be taxed to pay for all the (relatively) early retirements. It will be, however, a flash in the pan as the legislation for pushing the retirement and pension age up to 64 is now complete. It’s a necessary change given the cost of pensions and care for the old - even with France’s very high social tax costs. But this thread is about the UK’s Windsor framework, not about France…

er, hang on…

The UK has been out stripping the EU in economic growth, employment and lower inflation since we left. You’re either deliberately ignoring facts or you just haven’t got a clue what you’re on about.

Germany is in recession
France is on fire

Thats your two biggest net contributors and you have an energy crisis thats bankrupting Germanys manufacturing industry, you have the Netherlands which has the biggest protests ever against EU net zero policies (so much so its over throwing their prime minister), France is about to get a eurosceptic prime minister who hates the EU as much as we do and Italy is sticking two fingers up at the EU and the French already.

It’s hilarious you referring to France as “reckless childish indulgence” as their town halls burn to the ground, you can’t breathe the air because of the number of cars on fire and tyres burning and the police, fire brigade have joined the people in the biggest peoples revolt since the 1600s.

The reason France is burning is because France has been destroyed by socialism because France is now bankrupt because of socialism.

These aren’t young people burning things either, its people who have been robbed of their pensions and have to work longer to get a fraction of what they put in.

This is the EU you think we want to join… our King can’t even go there because it’s unsafe because of the riots.

It’s also my thread so I’ll talk about whatever I want. And you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with adults dominating children. Not being funny but it’s kinda creepy.

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The on-going reality is that the UK will now forge closer ties with the EU. And your dream of splendid isolation will be … a dream. Enjoy.

Parliament and the people are two different things, Strathmore. The silent majority will speak up at the next election just like they did in Italy, like they will do in France, Germany and the Netherlands.

We did it before and we will do it again.

Rose up before? When exactly? Perhaps you mean the English civil war…


I mean at the general election like we did in 2019 and like we did in the 2016 referendum and the EU Parliamentary elections etc.

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And don’t forget the poll tax…There are more of us than them.

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Good point.

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