You’ve done this in various threads. Making things up and attributing them to me. Where have I said that I do not agree with penicillin?
I understand antibiotics, how they work, what they are used for.
I understand the difference between cycling to work and catching a bus or driving a car!
This idea that medical antibiotics are the answer to all our woes is ridiculous. There is no doubt at all that some of these medical products are effective in what they do
What I am saying however, is that the FIRST port of call should be Nature, not Big Pharma products. And when I say first port of call I do not mean waiting until someone has gotten to a life threatening state and then trying Nature’s products. I’m saying that their entire life should be focussed on Nature and that their diet should be wide and varied and full of wonderful health boosting products of Nature so that they won’t get sick in the first place. Then when they first start to see symptoms of a condition, they FIRST reach for specific products of Nature known to be effective for that condition and treat themselves accordingly. Only if the condition doesn’t respond should they then look towards synthetic Pharma products.
Here you are tinkering with statistics and yet claiming that it is not playing with numbers?
Does it occur to you that the rise in numbers for ONS statistics are because of a change in reporting those statistics? It happens all the time.
I remind you with quotes from my previous message
No apples and bananas there, just FLU. As I say just some old bloke with too much time on his hands, with no medical or statistical expertise, sifting through statistics to suit his purpose and then spouting a long winded dose of nonsense.
“Lies, damned lies, and statistics” sums up your so called “Conclusion”. Which is basically, “Unless it agrees with me it is playing with numbers”.
The British Medical Journal figures are not estimated but it hardly matters; they are not my figures but the “estimated” figures are from authoritative, peer reviewed, medical research (did you check them?) and even if they were out by a factor of four (which is extremely unlikely) their figures are still nowhere near the numbers that our amateur, non medical, non statistician, non expert plucks from tables because they suit his bonnet bee.
All I have done is copied up the Public Health England statistics for direct Influenza deaths. It is NOT MY DATA.
If you have an issue with the government ONS data then contact them and take it up with them. Ranting at me for posting the info up simply makes you look like a desperate chump.
As for the links you have posted . . . again . . . nothing has changed. Posting it twice does nothing to change the facts as to what these separate sources of data are and represent.
The BMJ link you posted, as OGF rightly states, is a work of estimates, which they freely concede. The ONS data is a work of actuals, from death certificates etc. I don’t contest that one source offers more accurate results than the other. I simply post up the data.
Here’s the statement from YOUR BMJ link:
“The estimates of case fatality rates in our study have wide ranges, which reflect uncertainty about the proportion of people with symptoms who do not seek medical attention. If this proportion is higher than thought, our case fatality rates might be an overestimate. This proportion might have changed over time as public attitudes to the pandemic have evolved. The approach of using an estimate of total case numbers is subject to greater uncertainty than solely counting laboratory confirmed cases”
I see no issues here at all. The ONS data is pure raw numbers of Flu deaths taken from death reports. The BMJ data is a bunch of more complex estimations. The BMJ data may well have the better view on reality, who knows? That’s not the point though.
None of that is the issue at stake here. An issue which you have still failed to take on board.
The issue is whether or not the flu mortality rates are going up or down. If they are going up then the flu vaccine is not doing its job.
In this respect it matters not one jot whether the ONS data for the single year of 2009 is more or less accurate than the BMJ data for 2009. That’s a nice red herring you’ve thrown into the pot.
The issue is whether the TREND, year on year is up or down.
Why haven’t you grabbed your BMJ figures for every year from 2009 to 2017 to assess the trend based on that data?
That would seem to be the required action on your part if you are attempting to prove that mortality rates are not going up surely?
No sorry you are incorrect. They are apples and bananas. One set of data is actual deaths caused by flu taken from death certificates/reports. The other is a set of estimates which aim to provide a more accurate picture. Apples, bananas.
Now off you go and seek out the full BMJ data for 2009 to 2017 and then come back and show us the trend.
Stupid comments in the extreme. I simply posted up the government Public Health ONS statistics, nothing more, nothing less. Their validity has no bearing on me as a person.
In the FIRST instance, I am for the use of Natural remedies using products of Nature and prior to any sickness, a life focus on Nature and a diet and lifestyle that is in tune with Nature.
If circumstances have gotten too far advanced, out of control or are an emergency then sure, I am for the regrettable use of things like Penicillin.
As a comparative, if the world needs to rid itself of a small group of evil dictators, then in the first instance I am for specialised smart solutions for the removal of those dictators.
I would not blindly just reach for the nuclear bomb button to wipe out the entire country in order to achieve the same result.
Antibiotics should be a last resort. They destory bacteria indiscriminately, killing both good (wanted) and bad (unwanted) bacteria. They also have complications and side effects.
Nature is and always will be best. It should be our first port of call and our Governments should be supporting and promoting this instead of being Big Pharma puppets.
Alternative remedies should be offered in the NHS imo but not on prescription, I’d have no problem if they offered me a natural remedy but I have yet to see natural remedy vaccinations that actually work. Homeopathy again I haven’t witnessed that to work.
You do not need the NHS to offer you natural remedies. They are available everywhere freely, Nature is free.
What you may of course need is educating on which remedies are appropriate for which conditions.
It would be great if the NHS and GPs offered such education and services, but that’s never going to happen because there are no multi billion dollar profits to be made in telling people the enormous power of things like lemons, garlic and ginger.
Your health is YOUR responsibility. Everyone should have their health as No 1 priority in life and thus everyone should be educating themselves on Natural cures as early as possible in life.
I must say that you’ve piqued my interest in natural remedies, and when I have time I intend to look things up and find out more about what is good for what!
Do you happen to have any links along those lines?
We are an outlier in not offering natural remedies alongside conventional meds. Go to most countries in Europe and you will find a different approach where pharmacists are trained in both. SiL’s mum had a copd crisis in france and part of hospital treatment included massaging the soles of her feet with essential oils.
Accidents are not like illnesses though Bruce, I’m a big fan of some natural remedies, NHS gave my husband steroid creams for years, I put him on coconut oil instead and it worked many many times more effectively than the steroids. I treat my dogs with natural remedies sometimes too, no nasty chemical drops on back of their necks to prevent fleas we just put garlic in their food and no fleas.
Accidents are more mechanical and need more conventional help although a poultice of various herbs will help healing in my experience better than any conventional medicine.
Gosh JBR there is SO much out there to be found I wouldn’t know where to start.
I have a number of actual books which I doubtless got from Amazon years ago. They range from general natural remedies to a comprehensive book on all herbs and spices and their specific benefits and uses and other books.
Have a wander around Amazon and you’ll find a lot of that.
When you are interested in a specific ailment or condition then just Google it with natural remedies. i.e.
“Natural Remedies for Arthritis”
You’ll find a plethora of useful websites offering good information.
In terms of sourcing ingredients I have 2 main websites.
Firstly, Grapefruit Seed Extract, which I never go anywhere without, a most massively useful product with 100s of internal and external uses.
I buy from www.Citrosept.co.uk but they are now using their sister site for sales which is here:
Remember, this is Grapefruit, citrus so not usable by those people who can’t have such fruits which includes people on Statins and so on.
Secondly, to source the rich and varied tapestry of different herbs out there I use Neil’s Yard Remedies
Ignore all the skincare and other stuff there and look in the “Wellbeing” section where you will find “Dried Herbs” and “Herbal Tinctures”.
Their range of these herb based products is extensive.
You can Google the benefits of each herb and then order the ones you need. You can then mix them together as you wish to make a kind of “tea”.
My remedy cupboard in the kitchen always has the following items as standard:
Large tub of 500mg Vitamin C (Calcium based - Ester C)
(I avoid plain Vit C tablets which are just Ascorbic Acid as they are acidic and irritate the stomach)
Large tub of Liquorice Root capsules
(These fight tooth infections and other dental conditions like abscesses as well as helping gastro issues where they help line and repair the stomach walls)
Tub of Turmeric capsules
(I only use these if I can’t get raw turmeric into my meals)
Cod Liver Oil Capsules
(High Omega stuff and provides good Vitamin D)
Bottle of Sage Tincture
(Sage is a great herb but not always easy to put in meals. A few drops of this tincture in tea creates a herby tasting drink)
Tub of Health/Epsom Salts
(Salts have a variety of uses. Predominantly they relax/open the digestive tubes allowing food to go through easier and for those with gallbladder issues it helps stones go through thereby relieving the pain and letting the body rid itself of stored toxins. The salts can also be used as a laxative if needed)
Tubs of Charcoal
(Never needed to use but there in case of emergency. If you inadvertently ingest a poison of some kind charcoal is a good way to get it out of your system quickly.)
Echinacea capsules or tincture
(always have some form of Echinacea to use as a preventative and cure aid)
Aside from these stock items I always have a collection of dried herbs from Neil’s. There are about 10 in my collection.
Then I ALWAYS have in my kitchen:
A bunch of unwaxed lemons
A large chunk of fresh ginger
Large bulbs of garlic
I incorporate these into many meals and also make powerful immune boosting “tea” with the lemons and ginger and herbs.
As you probably also read in other threads, I also make my own Sauerkraut which is naturally fermented cabbage together with fennel and caraway seeds. Highly nutritious and packed with about 10 times more lacto-bacteria than the little yoghurt pots (Yakult, Actimel etc which are horrifically full of sugar!)
I avoid sugar where possible. I NEVER EVER buy bags of white sugar. I never add sugar to anything except on the rare occasions I bake muffins or some other cakey treat. Then I use only very dark brown sugar like Muscovado etc or I use honey or treacle and put about 1/2 of the recipe sugar allotment in.
I drink Coconut Water (Innocent brand which has less sugar content)
I don’t drink fruit juices (like Orange Juice and Apple Juice) as all that stuff is pure sugar and no fibre.
I eat plenty of fibre, that’s really important. Shredded Wheat for cereal or porridge made from organic oats, sometimes a bit of All-Bran though I don’t like the sugar content of that.
I make my own “Gingerbread” Granola in summer to have with yoghurt and fruit. It’s made from muesli oats, various dried fruits (dates, apricots, cranberries, raisins) and various nuts including pecan nuts, flaked almonds and hazelnuts. It’s all bound together with good quality Coconut Oil and a little treacle.
I cook with oils that have a low “smoke point” to avoid creating carcinogenic compounds which is what you get from regular oils at high heat. So I use either Avocado Oil or Rice Bran Oil in the main for all my frying and roasting. I use Extra Virgin Olive Oil for dressings and pesto and have used Flax Oil in the past too.
I drink no fizzy pop of any kind ever. No Colas, no Fanta, no Pepsi, no energy drinks like Red Bull, Monster etc. If I go out in the evening with friends I choose a Gin and Tonic or Rum and Ginger Ale. I will drink a glass of red wine with a meal out, but almost never at home.
I cook meals every day using fresh vegetables and well sourced meat and fish. Take-aways are very few and far between. A Chinese maybe twice a year. Fish and chips maybe 10 times a year.
You get the idea I’m sure.
Most of this is simply about keeping the body systems in good order, especially the immune system. There are remedies there in case of sickness but in the main I allow and expect my body to simply “do its thing” and heal itself, which it does quite happily.
Natural Remedies begin with and are under-pinned by a lifestyle in tune with Nature.
Thanks, Realist. I’m very grateful for all that information.
Yes, of course I could have googled ‘natural remedies’ but I really wanted was suggestions from you of things that you had found worked which, of course, you have just done.
The https://www.nealsyardremedies.com/ website that you listed was really interesting, particularly the ‘Choose a therapy’ section. There are, of course, some sections such as ‘skincare’, etc. which you mentioned as being not useful. However, one must be very careful and exercise common sense as, for example, ‘ear candling’ is actually a potentially dangerous activity!
Nevertheless, I think I am able to pick out things that I’d be willing to try, and I shall have a more thorough look at the helpful information you have supplied. Cod liver oil, for example, is one thing my mother made me drink every day. I didn’t like it at all, but I now realise that this ancient panacea was actually beneficial.
