There are two insurmountable problems there: I get no pleasure from being “serious and sensible”, so what would be the point? And, secondly, entering into debate with someone completely incapable of being truthful about anything frustrates me too unbearably.
Perhaps I should enhance the “good spirit” of the forums by hurling obscenities beginning with “C” at people. Although that didn’t work terribly well for you, did it?
Well those people who don’t like it usually put me on ignore, and I think some others do like my childish rubbish.
The Irish border issue is an unavoidable problem brought about by two incompatible imperatives. The Irish (North and South) don’t want a “hard border”, but in order for us to be truly out of the EU, there has to be a hard border. The EU is not responsible for that state of affairs. It is the fact that NI is part of the UK, rather than part of the Republic of Ireland, that is responsible.
There is no need for a hard border. In terms of the GFA, the border on the island of Ireland was a security border, it was never a customs border. Likewise, the customs union is to ensure EU standards are met, it is not to stop smuggling from one country to another or from the EU to another country. To have the EU regulate trade within the UK single market (GB → NI and NI → GB) is simply absurd.
There is already a border between NI and the Republic, there is a currency border and a VAT border, there is no reason a hard customs border needs to exist, as documented in the EU Smart Borders 2.0 proposal.
The real issue for the EU here is that the UK and NI control everything going into the Republic and from the Republic to the EU (over land). Thats what the EU don’t like.
There has to be a hard border between either the north and south of Ireland, or one between all Ireland and the rest of the UK. It is a problem without a satisfactory solution.
They can’t build it if the Irish Republic is committed to an open border. The Republic and the UK are both committed to an open border, yet our new relationship with the EU requires a proper customs border. I repeat, there is no solution, other than NI to reunite with the South, and leave the UK.
You might want to look at the Agreed Northern Ireland Protocol Document.
Signed up to by the UK & EU.
Especially this bit :-
“6. In The UK’s approach to the Northern Ireland Protocol, the UK Government
set out the essential commitments that needed to be respected in all
scenarios:
a. Northern Ireland businesses must have unfettered access to the rest
of the UK market.
b. Trade from Great Britain to Northern Ireland which remained in the UK
customs territory should not be subject to tariffs; and Northern Ireland
must benefit from the Free Trade Agreements we strike with third
countries - protecting Northern Ireland’s place in the UK customs
territory.
c. The additional processes on goods arriving in Northern Ireland must
take account of all flexibilities and discretion - ensuring a smooth flow
of trade with no need for new physical customs infrastructure.”
If the EU wish to put a hard border up on the island of Ireland they can do so within their own territory. The UK does not and will not put up a hard border - there is no reason for it and it breaches the GFA.
Why do you think there needs to be a hard border ? There is the common travel area remember and neither NI, GB or the Republic are in the Schengen area.
@Tedc , From what that says it seems that the EU never read the agreement
before signing it either ??
I can’t wait for the new fishing arrangements to get started !!
Can only be a couple of months to go now ??
Donkeyman!
So if the republic won’t have a hard border and the UK and NI won’t have a hard border there doesn’t need to be one does there.
You don’t apply customs and tariffs on the border they are applied at the point goods are received or when goods are sent. VAT for example is collected up to 6 months after delivery.
As for the common travel area, a hard customs border between NI and the Republic would be in direct breach of that agreement and require border control - hence the reference to the common travel area and Schengen (both free travel areas).
You’d better tell that to the EU, for some reason, they seem to think borders are necessary. I think they have the silly idea that people won’t comply with their trading rules without borders.
I can’t make sense of that, and suspect it doesn’t contain any.
The EU do NOT think borders are necessary, check out Smart Borders 2.0 - it is their own document on customs and borders.
The common travel area has been in place decades since the Schenge and the EU even existed. Putting up a hard border for customs would breach that agreement. It is referenced in the GFA so would also breach that agreement.
If you don’t understand the basics of customs borders, customs unions and how trade works go and learn it, I’m not here to educate you. Do you honestly believe every lorry passing from NI to the Republic and back would have to have inspectors opening up all the boxes on lorries and check (for example) every plug on each appliance in the container had a CE mark and send them back if they didn’t ? Goods are inspected at the place of destination most of the time.
The Schengen Area is an area within the EU where there are no passport requirements between the EU countries that are within it. It is not a customs area. Northern Ireland cannot be part of the Schengen Agreement, because it is not in the EU.
