Misled Over Brexit ? Certainly Looks That way!

[Zaphod]

@swimfeeders

Hi

We have been mislead about Brexit.

The important thing is that we have left.

Where we have been misled and still are being misled is about our preparedness for it.

We were not ready for it, are still not ready for it, are once again pushing back the dates when we will be ready for it and every week we do so we are giving the EU an advantage.

I object to this, we should not give them an inch.

Gove is once again massaging the figures, Pritti has done naff all about Border Security in reality and we are becoming a joke.

In short: drivel.
Those thinking they have somehow been misled must have been labouring under false assumptions to begin with because as soon as votes were counted following the referendum we knew that we would be leaving the EU.
It doesn’t take a genius to find out what that would entail, for those that didn’t already know.
The EU even publishes a handy guide as to just what EU membership means and what being a member entails - more than one in fact.
As is typical of EU self-aggrandizement.

You can’t blame any government for UK businesses not being prepared for Brexit, or was almost five years notice really not enough?
It’s not difficult to find out the EU’s requirements you know, especially when they have a handy website that lists pretty much everything you could ever need to know about trading with the EU.
Our government had a lengthy campaign warning UK businesses too.
Okay, I’m sure that the government hasn’t been exactly perfect but given the scale of the task that’s hardly surprising.

I disagree with you about giving too much to the EU too.
In what few areas it might look as if that’s the case we have opt-outs if we choose to use them and accept their consequences, of course.
Surely recent events have convinced you that Frost et al are intent upon not letting the EU get away with much?
Otherwise why are the EU being so vocal in their objections?
Why are they being obstinate about confirming the deal and trying to weaponise that?
Worst of all, why are they weaponizing Covid vaccines and especially one which their own gross incompetence has rendered so extremely difficult to get their citizens to take that they have a glut?

As for Priti all I can say is that you really need to ignore the UK media’s preponderance for anything anti-government and pro-EU.
Priti has already made significant changes which tighten border security and the new Border Control Bill is on its way through the commons.
You can’t blame Priti for such things needing parliamentary approval you know, or for the complexity in adhering to international laws when dealing with such complicated issues.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people assumed that Brexit could ever be a fast and smooth transition from being a member to not being a member after nigh-on fifty years of insidious, creeping integration.
The most complicated divorces have always taken time and usually leave each party with some dissatisfactions.
Brexit was always bound to be the same, with some people unhappy no matter what the outcome.

Could Brexit have gone better?
Quite possibly, though in honesty I fail to see quite how in any major sense given the circumstances.
The important thing of course is that it’s not yet completely achieved.
There are as we all know border problems thanks mostly to EU incompetence; fishing worries which are a mixture between lack of foresight and EU irascibility; financial services and - of course - the vaccine saga are all ongoing and more besides.

None of this is showing the EU in a good light to the rest of the world (not that this matters to any significant degree) as increasingly the EU are making themselves appear to be no more than playground bullies.

In summary then and taking into consideration that as of now much regarding Brexit has not been finalized, it would seem to be turning out pretty much as any sensible person would have predicted.
Generally okay but with some hiccoughs.

[Zaphod]

@Bread

What business do you run out of interest?

That is not something I am prepared to divulge here other than to say that I have both started and run a number of successful small businesess in a few different sectors.

[Donkeyman]

@Zaphod

In short: drivel.
Those thinking they have somehow been misled must have been labouring under false assumptions to begin with because as soon as votes were counted following the referendum we knew that we would be leaving the EU.
It doesn’t take a genius to find out what that would entail, for those that didn’t already know.
The EU even publishes a handy guide as to just what EU membership means and what being a member entails - more than one in fact.
As is typical of EU self-aggrandizement.

You can’t blame any government for UK businesses not being prepared for Brexit, or was almost five years notice really not enough?
It’s not difficult to find out the EU’s requirements you know, especially when they have a handy website that lists pretty much everything you could ever need to know about trading with the EU.
Our government had a lengthy campaign warning UK businesses too.
Okay, I’m sure that the government hasn’t been exactly perfect but given the scale of the task that’s hardly surprising.

I disagree with you about giving too much to the EU too.
In what few areas it might look as if that’s the case we have opt-outs if we choose to use them and accept their consequences, of course.
Surely recent events have convinced you that Frost et al are intent upon not letting the EU get away with much?
Otherwise why are the EU being so vocal in their objections?
Why are they being obstinate about confirming the deal and trying to weaponise that?
Worst of all, why are they weaponizing Covid vaccines and especially one which their own gross incompetence has rendered so extremely difficult to get their citizens to take that they have a glut?

As for Priti all I can say is that you really need to ignore the UK media’s preponderance for anything anti-government and pro-EU.
Priti has already made significant changes which tighten border security and the new Border Control Bill is on its way through the commons.
You can’t blame Priti for such things needing parliamentary approval you know, or for the complexity in adhering to international laws when dealing with such complicated issues.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people assumed that Brexit could ever be a fast and smooth transition from being a member to not being a member after nigh-on fifty years of insidious, creeping integration.
The most complicated divorces have always taken time and usually leave each party with some dissatisfactions.
Brexit was always bound to be the same, with some people unhappy no matter what the outcome.

Could Brexit have gone better?
Quite possibly, though in honesty I fail to see quite how in any major sense given the circumstances.
The important thing of course is that it’s not yet completely achieved.
There are as we all know border problems thanks mostly to EU incompetence; fishing worries which are a mixture between lack of foresight and EU irascibility; financial services and - of course - the vaccine saga are all ongoing and more besides.

None of this is showing the EU in a good light to the rest of the world (not that this matters to any significant degree) as increasingly the EU are making themselves appear to be no more than playground bullies.

In summary then and taking into consideration that as of now much regarding Brexit has not been finalized, it would seem to be turning out pretty much as any sensible person would have predicted.
Generally okay but with some hiccoughs.

I see your effort to keep your posts concise didn’t last long Zaphod ??
A couple of points if l may?
Your remark that lack of foresight on the behalf of our fishermen
surely applies to EU fishermen too, but we have conceded to them a further five years transition period , WHY???
I can see no useful purpose for this?
And, you have on a number of occasions stated that our fishing
industry is insignificant and basically not worth fighting over ?
Well if this is so, why are EU making such a fuss over it do you
think ???
And item 3, l have no problem with Pritti Patel, in fact l think she is
doing ok considering all the establishment is firmly against her!!
( l am not sure lf l should say EX establishment yet?)

 Donkeyman!

[Banchory]

@Zaphod

In short: drivel.
Those thinking they have somehow been misled must have been labouring under false assumptions to begin with because as soon as votes were counted following the referendum we knew that we would be leaving the EU.
It doesn’t take a genius to find out what that would entail, for those that didn’t already know.
The EU even publishes a handy guide as to just what EU membership means and what being a member entails - more than one in fact.
As is typical of EU self-aggrandizement.

You can’t blame any government for UK businesses not being prepared for Brexit, or was almost five years notice really not enough?
It’s not difficult to find out the EU’s requirements you know, especially when they have a handy website that lists pretty much everything you could ever need to know about trading with the EU.
Our government had a lengthy campaign warning UK businesses too.
Okay, I’m sure that the government hasn’t been exactly perfect but given the scale of the task that’s hardly surprising.

I disagree with you about giving too much to the EU too.
In what few areas it might look as if that’s the case we have opt-outs if we choose to use them and accept their consequences, of course.
Surely recent events have convinced you that Frost et al are intent upon not letting the EU get away with much?
Otherwise why are the EU being so vocal in their objections?
Why are they being obstinate about confirming the deal and trying to weaponise that?
Worst of all, why are they weaponizing Covid vaccines and especially one which their own gross incompetence has rendered so extremely difficult to get their citizens to take that they have a glut?

As for Priti all I can say is that you really need to ignore the UK media’s preponderance for anything anti-government and pro-EU.
Priti has already made significant changes which tighten border security and the new Border Control Bill is on its way through the commons.
You can’t blame Priti for such things needing parliamentary approval you know, or for the complexity in adhering to international laws when dealing with such complicated issues.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people assumed that Brexit could ever be a fast and smooth transition from being a member to not being a member after nigh-on fifty years of insidious, creeping integration.
The most complicated divorces have always taken time and usually leave each party with some dissatisfactions.
Brexit was always bound to be the same, with some people unhappy no matter what the outcome.

Could Brexit have gone better?
Quite possibly, though in honesty I fail to see quite how in any major sense given the circumstances.
The important thing of course is that it’s not yet completely achieved.
There are as we all know border problems thanks mostly to EU incompetence; fishing worries which are a mixture between lack of foresight and EU irascibility; financial services and - of course - the vaccine saga are all ongoing and more besides.

None of this is showing the EU in a good light to the rest of the world (not that this matters to any significant degree) as increasingly the EU are making themselves appear to be no more than playground bullies.

In summary then and taking into consideration that as of now much regarding Brexit has not been finalized, it would seem to be turning out pretty much as any sensible person would have predicted.
Generally okay but with some hiccoughs.

Perhaps you who claim to be so wise could explain what EU incompetence is causing border problems as My wife who both imports from and exports to the EU is finding exports are arriving with the customer in generally the same pre Brexit timescales but, imports, while arriving in the UK in a few days with all the correct paperwork are taking up to 8 weeks to clear U.K. customs with the Thames Gateway port being the worst offender. There are of course additional costs due to the loss of frictionless trade that the public, both UK and EU ultimately end up paying. Fortunately she does not operate tons JIT basis and can if necessary move some of her operation to Germany.

Furthermore, why is the EU applying existing third country rules classed as irascibility by you, particularly as this was not difficult to find out as was the EU seizing the opportunity to grab financial services on the back of our loss of passporting rights.

[swimfeeders]

Hi

An article from Conservative Woman

Misled over fishing – it’s a government habit | The Conservative Woman

[Zaphod]

@Banchory

Perhaps you who claim to be so wise

Is that tone really necessary?
If nothing else it marks out clearly the type of “contributor” you are and perhaps you would be so kind as to show us all here exactly where I claim to be so wise?

Funny innit how one person can give an opinion which rather than being the first point of debate is primarily ignored in favour of a personal attack?
Is that supposed to influence readers into believing your version rather than mine?

@Banchory

… explain what EU incompetence is causing border problems as My wife who both imports from and exports to the EU is finding exports are arriving with the customer in generally the same pre Brexit timescales but, imports, while arriving in the UK in a few days with all the correct paperwork are taking up to 8 weeks to clear U.K. customs with the Thames Gateway port being the worst offender. There are of course additional costs due to the loss of frictionless trade that the public, both UK and EU ultimately end up paying. Fortunately she does not operate tons JIT basis and can if necessary move some of her operation to Germany.

Well at least you say that exports to the EU aren’t a problem for your wife.
Although that’s good for her that’s not how our media are trying to portray things; perhaps your wife could point this small success out to them?

I cannot speak for one individual’s anecdotal supposed experiences but I can say that the UK Revenue IT system has crashed a few times, supposedly as a result of sheer volume of traffic.
Some ports are still clogged due to container problems, are they not - and you can’t blame Brexit for that unless you’re determined to blame Brexit for everything, that is.
Are you?
Things are changing but generally speaking it takes a little while to adapt.

Since you seem to like personal experience, I have family and friends whose business involves amongst other things the import and export of various goods from EU countries relating mostly to home improvement goods and to light machinery.
They assure me that they are not in general seeing any difficulties above the usual to and from the EU except that the requirements for forms to be worded and even the correct coloured ink to be used can sometimes throw a brief spanner in the works, and they tell me that this does not cause any significant delay.
What they do say is that shipping times and costs from outside the EU have increased dramatically.

EU irascibility has been well-documented and covered in our media regarding “border problems”.
There are far more ports and borders than the Thames Gateway you know, like Northern Ireland … and who can have forgotten the comments upon the confiscation of a trucker’s sarnies too?

@Banchory

Furthermore, why is the EU applying existing third country rules classed as irascibility by you, particularly as this was not difficult to find out as was the EU seizing the opportunity to grab financial services on the back of our loss of passporting rights.

Why are you ignoring the obvious behaviour of the EU which is very admirably described as “irascible” when that is exactly what it appears to be?
When even the EU’s Pierre Karleskind, chairman of the European parliament’s committee on fisheries, says that a ban on shellfish imports doesn’t make sense it is easy to see the methods the EU are choosing.
Often it is a choice too, in how rules are interpreted for example.
Just like the other examples I gave which you chose to ignore, like weaponising the island of Ireland and vaccines.

The EU are stamping their feet over financial services, just as we expected.
All they are doing is harming themselves as is widely understood if you research this particular area, just as they did when trying to do similar with the Swiss.
IMHO the UK has already given the EU a two-fingered salute in this area with agreeing closer ties with the Swiss and mutual trading.
How much this will affect the UK sector overall remains to be seen but we already know that the dire forecasts prior to our departure were hugely exaggerated, and that in fact the number of jobs in the UK’s financial sector actually increased in recent years.

Given that so much of what is discussed here and elsewhere in forums is about personal perception and how things affect us as individuals, each of us undoubtedly has a different opinion regarding one thing or another.
That’s why this part of the forum exists in which such differing opinions can be discussed.

Forgive the lengthy response but I believe I have responded in a full and honest manner.
Perhaps if you see areas with which you disagree you would be polite enough to do the same, without having to resort to ad hominem replies?

[Zaphod]

@Donkeyman

I see your effort to keep your posts concise didn’t last long Zaphod ??
A couple of points if l may?
Your remark that lack of foresight on the behalf of our fishermen
surely applies to EU fishermen too, but we have conceded to them a further five years transition period , WHY???
I can see no useful purpose for this?
And, you have on a number of occasions stated that our fishing
industry is insignificant and basically not worth fighting over ?
Well if this is so, why are EU making such a fuss over it do you
think ???
And item 3, l have no problem with Pritti Patel, in fact l think she is
doing ok considering all the establishment is firmly against her!!
( l am not sure lf l should say EX establishment yet?)

 Donkeyman!  

You’re asking questions which I have already answered if you read these posts.
I politely suggest you read them again rather than clog the thread up with more repeats than a BBC afternoon viewing schedule.

Regarding #3, there we are agreed.

[Zaphod]

@swimfeeders

Hi

An article from Conservative Woman

Misled over fishing – it’s a government habit - The Conservative Woman

Please dear readers of that link read the comments.

There are many which point out the obvious: we do not eat much of what is caught and it is extremely expensive, basically.

[Donkeyman]

@swimfeeders

Hi

An article from Conservative Woman

Misled over fishing – it’s a government habit - The Conservative Woman

Ain’t that wot lve been saying for years now Swimmy ??
We are helping EU to rob us. !!
Trigger the get out clause NOW!!

 Donkeyman!

[Zaphod]

@Donkeyman

Ain’t that wot lve been saying for years now Swimmy ??
We are helping EU to rob us. !!
Trigger the get out clause NOW!!

 Donkeyman!  

As with other areas, maybe it’s a case of giving the EU just enough rope with which to hang themselves.

“BRITAIN has joined coastal nations to attack the EU for “appalling” behaviour over its fishing in the Indian Ocean that risks destroying the marine eco-system.”

UK attacks 'appalling' EU over bloc's 'neocolonial' fish attitudes

[Zaphod]

"Mr Redwood reiterated why he was happy and hopeful about the UK moving forward without EU influence.

He said: "The big decline in our fishing industry, over our years in the EU, was one of the worst consequences.

“It should now be possible to reverse that because we do have the freedom to provide grants and loans to buy fishing vessels and support businesses.”

Brexit Britain 'filled with opportunities for farming and fishing expansion'...

[Donkeyman]

@Zaphod

You’re asking questions which I have already answered if you read these posts.
I politely suggest you read them again rather than clog the thread up with more repeats than a BBC afternoon viewing schedule.

Regarding #3, there we are agreed.

ME clog the thread up.?!?!

 Donkeyman!

[swimfeeders]

Hi

I di not consider my posts to be drivel, they are backed up with facts.

Here is another link for example.

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87898

It matters nothing that we don’t eat what we catch, Boris made promises about fisheries he has not kept.

We can export what we catch, or could do if it where not for Frost’s idiocy in agreeing things which are seriously damaging existing fisheries.

[Donkeyman]

@Zaphod

"Mr Redwood reiterated why he was happy and hopeful about the UK moving forward without EU influence.

He said: "The big decline in our fishing industry, over our years in the EU, was one of the worst consequences.

“It should now be possible to reverse that because we do have the freedom to provide grants and loans to buy fishing vessels and support businesses.”

Brexit Britain 'filled with opportunities for farming and fishing expansion' says Redwood | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

I agree we have the OPPORTUNITY to improve our position Zaphod !!
But that OPPORTUNITY has to be seized ??
I don’t think giving grants and loans is exactly seizing anything?
Our fishermen only need to seize the right of access to what is
theirs in order to become successful, probably no need for loans or
grants then ??
This is why the 5•5 year transition is nonsensical and serves no
purpose from UKs point of view ??

  Donkeyman!

[Donkeyman]

@swimfeeders

Hi

I di not consider my posts to be drivel, they are backed up with facts.

Here is another link for example.

EU Referendum

It matters nothing that we don’t eat what we catch, Boris made promises about fisheries he has not kept.

We can export what we catch, or could do if it where not for Frost’s idiocy in agreeing things which are seriously damaging existing fisheries.

I’m not so sure it was Frosty Swimmy??
The cave in took place AFTER Boris took things into his own
hands!!
The rest of your post is spot on !!

 Donkeyman!

[Zaphod]

@swimfeeders

Hi

I di not consider my posts to be drivel, they are backed up with facts.

Here is another link for example.

EU Referendum

It matters nothing that we don’t eat what we catch, Boris made promises about fisheries he has not kept.

We can export what we catch, or could do if it where not for Frost’s idiocy in agreeing things which are seriously damaging existing fisheries.

No.
They are “backed up” with the opinions of other people.
There is a considerable difference.

[SIZE=“4”]Eustice denies EU sanctions post-2026 a big issue for fishing industry[/SIZE]

Eustice denies EU sanctions post-2026 a big issue for fishing industry

[swimfeeders]

@Zaphod

No.
They are “backed up” with the opinions of other people.
There is a considerable difference.

[SIZE=“4”]Eustice denies EU sanctions post-2026 a big issue for fishing industry[/SIZE]

https://thefishingdaily.com/uk-fishing-industry-news-blog/eustice-denies-eu-sanctions-post-2026-a-big-issue-for-fishing-industry/

Hi

Nope.

You are the one quoting opinions.

Eustace was talking about post 2026, 5 years away with an outcome no one can predict.

The here and now is Boris made promises, he lied, he has not kept them and fisheries are stating they are going out of business.

[Bread]

@swimfeeders

Hi

Nope.

You are the one quoting opinions.

Eustace was talking about post 2026, 5 years away with an outcome no one can predict.

The here and now is Boris made promises, he lied, he has not kept them and fisheries are stating they are going out of business.

The future has been predicted by George Eustace - no sanctions post 2026 meaning nothing will change.

Sounds more like your agreeing with Swimmy than correcting him. Not much control there is there ^^^

[Bread]

@swimfeeders

Hi

I di not consider my posts to be drivel, they are backed up with facts.

Here is another link for example.

EU Referendum

It matters nothing that we don’t eat what we catch, Boris made promises about fisheries he has not kept.

We can export what we catch, or could do if it where not for Frost’s idiocy in agreeing things which are seriously damaging existing fisheries.

We don’t eat what we catch because we don’t have the quotas and TAC limits for the fish we do eat. That belongs to the EU.

[swimfeeders]

@Bread

We don’t eat what we catch because we don’t have the quotas and TAC limits for the fish we do eat. That belongs to the EU.

Hi

We catch huge amounts of Pelagic fish, we eat cod and haddock.

Fish and chips.

I catch flounders, taste great, not on the menu.

Also pollack, coalfish, ling and conger.

Never see them on the menu.

We are trying, Morrisons are doing a UK caught fish box for people to buy at £7, it is an absolute bargain, but it is not selling well.

We catch hake, a lovely eating fish, much in demand in the EU, we cannot sell it here.

They are however our fish, they should be caught by us, with us setting the quotas and landed here.

The EU can swan off.