Gertie is full of cuddlesome cuteness Mups!
She is a beauty and obviously meant for your little furry family, good luck with the scan.
I realise it is not compulsory for breeders to have their puppies vet checked. However, if they have been done - and I firmly believe all pups should be - then the vet will certificate the pups. This certificate will then go in with the pupâs contract details and other information a buyer gets when taking a puppy. It is still advisable to take a newly acquired pup to your own vet within 2 days for confirmation check, etc. I would never buy a pup without this certification before they leave the nest. At the end of the day a pedigree pup usually costs a reasonable sum of money (as do many crossbreeds these days) and the dog is hopefully going to be with the new owner for quite a number of years. The best we can do to make sure we have a healthy animal and that we have not âbeen sold a pupâ as the saying goes, is to ensure that these things have been done before taking over responsibility for the puppy.
Fair comments Aerolor, no veterinary certificate was in with her paperwork.
I suppose another advantage of having that would be because insurances are notorious for wriggling out of coughing up, they would say the pup was âbought WITH the existing problemâ so wouldnât pay out.
However, if the breeder had gives a certificate from their vet saying she was healthy at the time of purchase, the insurance may not be able to wriggle out of financial help so easily.
Gertie has the usual 4 week free insurance, so Iâd better look into that.
Since pedigrees , KC registrations and sire and dam health certificates can be forged then Iâm pretty sure vet certificates can be forged too . So I hope you phone the vet to ask for confirmation that the puppy has indeed been checked and a cetificate issued .
I have owned dogs all my life and I have owned at least 4 for the last 25 years and no puppy I have ever bought has been health checked by a vet .
But then again I donât buy puppies from repetetive breeders or puppy farms who I believe set great store by these certificates in order to boost up the cost of the puppies they sell .
If Gertie had an insurance certificate which was current before the heart murmur was detected then I think they will pay out .
The main thing is Gertie is fine so fingers crossed for a good scan result on Friday .
I donât doubt that vet certifications can be forged by an unscrupulous breeder Abby. Of course, there are dishonest people in all walks of life and I take little at face value.
Puppy farms/mills - they donât care a fig about their pups or the dogs they breed from. Health checks etc. are of little concern to them - they are only concerned about the money they can get and a rapid turnover. It should be easy to realise who is puppy farming and folks are advised to steer well clear of them. I am sure you know that, as far as buying dogs and other livestock is concerned, it is important to do the groundwork when purchasing a creature that will be with you for, hopefully many years. In the scheme of things, the purchase price is the smallest part of the overall cost of owning a dog throughout itâs lifetime.
I would not buy any pup unless I had thoroughly done the groundwork first. I have always had a keen interest in dogs and, yes, I too have kept dogs for most of my life and at one time in the past bred my own flatcoated retrievers, but not nowadays. I only have one dog now - a golden retriever, but I know exactly what tests her parents/grandparents had. I also went to the trouble and checked the parents in-breeding coefficient with the KC before I made my choice. The KC has itâs critics sometimes, but they do hold pretty comprehensive databases for all sorts of things to do with dogs and do their best to ensure that they are accurate. If the dogs are registered and you know the parents KC names it is quite easy to check all sorts of things. (although it wonât be as accurate as the human Births, marriages and deaths register of course - lol 
)
I do hope the heart scan will not throw up any serious concern Mups and, as Abbey says you will likely be covered by the puppy insurance - check it out to see if there are any exclusions.
Itâs such a shame to have a worry like this when you should be enjoying your pup. Good luck.
Thanks for the Good Luck wishes Aerolor.
I did do my homework before I bought her and I also checked her health results.
I am very familiar with the suggested health tests for the breed as Gertie is my 5th Beddie. I also checked out the coefficient of each parent individually, then the offspring of the mating of those parents. I also double checked the health certificates with the paperwork I was given.
As you say the KC have alot more information available nowadays than they used to have.
I spoke to the breeder on the phone tonight. She said the puppies were vet checked at the time vaccinating, but her vet did not issue a certificate. This does make sense to me actually, because hopefully all vets should give a basic examination before they vaccinate, but I have never known one supply a certificate other than the vaccination certificate itself. Personally, I donât like or agree with early vaccinating, but Gertie was done before I could ask them not to.
Her insurance is with Pet Plan, and the breeder arranged my cover on line, so I am hoping to get the confirmation paperwork through any time now.
What I canât understand (and nor could the breeder) is how come the heart murmur wasnât picked up at the vaccination examination? Either it wasnât there at that time, or they didnât do a very good job of examining her.
The breeder said tonight that I could either take Gertie back and have a full refund, or swap her for her sister if I preferred. She was quite reasonable about it.
Thing is, I love the little mite and donât want her to go anywhere, itâs not her fault. So letâs just hope that she has the juvenile sort of problem that she will likely grow out of in a few months.
Maybe the heart murmur is so mild that only an experienced vet would pick it up ? I have known of a few whippet puppies with heart murmurs as puppies but were ok by the time they were 6 months so maybe Gertie will be the same .
Mups whatever the problem is I know she will not get better care than she will with you. Gertie will be as well as her condition allows, so the only person to suffer will be you⌠through worry that you could do more. I am sure you are going to keep her, no matter what, I know I would but please make sure that the others still get the attention they deserve. I know, from my own experience, that we tend to focus on a sick animal, more than the others. I am hoping this is just a temporary condition, not just for Gertie, but for all the others and her new mum.
Yes, letâs hope itâs that type Abbey, thank you. Fingers crossed for her tomorrow morning.
Thanks for the encouraging words Twink, sheâs certainly lively enough this morning, little tyke.
I wonât let the others feel neglected, they also get a few perks she is not allowed yet.
As a general comment, my last two Mini puppies had eye tests at 7 weeks for Congenital Hereditary Juvenile Cataracts and the breeders supplied a certificate from the testing specialist vet.
If was recommended I had Chloe tested again after 6 months but as she was a much loved pet and not to be bred from I didnât bother.
I think it is normal practice for certificates to be issues for breed specific conditions which can be tested for at an early age and of course for some of these conditions, the parents will have been tested prior to breeding.
The sire and damâs Health Screening details are then printed on puppies pedigrees in my puppyâs case it says ''Eye/date-unaffected by CHC GPRA HC ââ and these details can also be checked on the relevant database.
I realise my case is not the same Mups but I hope it may be reassuring to you 
My cat Cassie was diagnosed with a heart murmer when she was checked over in the vet hospital before having a dental ⌠She was 8 years old at that time and showed no signs of there being anything amiss. Iâm pleased to say she lived until she was 20.
I´m no expert Mups, but my little Muffin had a heart murmer as a puppy too. It didn´t affect him in any way until he was about 10 years old, his last couple of years he was on tablets, prior to that he didn´t need any medication. To be quite honest, even if he had needed medication I would still never have parted with him, no matter what his problems he was a much loved pet and I couldn´t even think of parting with him because he was not quite perfect. We just ensured he had regular checks, as we do with little ChoCho. I hope all goes well with your little Gertie.
Hi Meg, I know what you mean about the certificates.
Gertie hasnât been tested yet, but I have all relevant health certificates from both her parents (who are âclearâ) , so pup canât inherit the breed problems in that way. The main disease to look out for in Beddies is something called Copper Toxicosis, this is where their liver canât process Copper and stores it instead. It is a recessive herediary gene, so she should be fine from 2 clear parents.
However, that is not what Aerolor was commenting on, she was meaning a final general health âvet checkedâ thingy before they leave the breeder. As I said, the breeders vet checked them before vaccinating (I hope), but there is no proof of that as the vet only supplied her 1st vacc. info.
Mups With regard to Gertie 
, a heart murmur is of course a symptom not a condition and there could be a number of causes for it .She could have a âpuppy murmurâ which may improve and wonât cause any problems or it could be something more serious. I donât know to which specific conditions the breed is susceptible.
This database of which I am sure you are aware is excellent for checking breed specific conditions.
http://www.vet.cam.ac.uk/idid/
Amy developed a heart murmur age 10 which progressed from a 1+ to 4+ , it was controlled with medication and she lived to 16.
Hoping all goes well with the tests
I hesitate to say anything Mups, but if the tests are not good I would think about the breeders offer .
When you mentioned Gertie was âcompletely quiet, calm, very placidâ I did feel a pang of concern. I like my puppies bouncy and full of life.
This is particularly so after my experience with Millie (the puppy before Chole) who was lost at 9 months with kidney failure just when I had thoroughly bonded with her and trained her (one of the most traumatic experiences I have had in 50 years of owning Minis 
) there was something not quite right with Millie from day one and I should have listened to my instincts.
I still canât look at her without feeling a terrible pang of what might have beenâŚ
Iâll keep a note of that website Meg, thanks.
She has got livelier by the day, and was tearing round the garden like a looney last night, but thankfully she is just not a vocal, noisy pup with it.
I really, really hope it is just the puppy murmur and benign, I will know tomorrow.
Donât really want to think about what Iâll do with her if itâs bad news just yet. Thanks for your help.
That sounds good Mups good luck with the tests.