Meg I don’t think Realist is trying to ram his opinion down anyone’s throat he’s just putting forward his argument for not having the jab (sometimes rather forcibly I admit) but I for one agree with him, there’s no way you’d get me to have the jab after seeing how ill it made my wife and son.
Yet they will keep posting the same thing over and over again as if in some way the number of times they say it has some impact to its merit !
There is an alarmingly large amount of pseudo-logic and kidology present in this thread. People who don’t understand the fundamental difference between a virus and a bacterial infection (yet want to enter a debate on the topic !), people who equate 1 person’s experience as proof-positive of the efficacy of a treatment, people who can’t see the significant difference in concentrations of 2ppm and 51,000ppm and so on. Quite staggering in some respects.
The messenger will I guess, continue to be disparaged by those who can’t deal with the evidence provided and presumably the “selective” moderating will continue too.
With all sensible things hopefully now said (can’t be too much more can there?)
…I wonder if the mercury inside me is the reason why I can often give a fair estimate of air temperature, although that could be the alcohol I suppose.
A walking thermometer, that’s me. 
Marty Mercury.
Both myself and my husband have had a flu jab for a number of years, none of us have suffered any ill effects and not have flu either. So I will continue burying my head in the sand 
because it appears to be working for us.
I much prefer to take advice from a medical professional, rather than some one who is reading “medical evidence” and appears to have no medical training and just has an opinion like the rest of us.
Too true because many of these studies should be read and digested by medical professionals who understand all the risks, not just the lurid head lines that scare people.
I believe that before allowing substances into your system it is a good idea to make sure that they are safe and will do the job required without too many side effects.
Therefore, information from any source can be digested and considered when making decisions, including information supplied by so called ‘Medical Professionals’
Can we be sure that the ‘Medical Professionals’ are recommending medication for all the right reasons. Can we put our trust wholly in that of our Doctors; Doctor Harold Shipman was trusted by his patients, and we all know what happened to some of those…
EEK!! OGF…Are You suggesting the Tory Government are trying to get rid of all of Us OAPs by poisoning the flu’ vaccination.?..sheesh!..now why would that not surprise Me…‘twould solve a lot o’ Their problems,lol.:~)
No one can ‘make sure’ with any substance Bob, we can only weigh up the risks and decide what is best for each of us.
Therefore, information from any source can be digested and considered when making decisions, including information supplied by so called ‘Medical Professionals’
I think that goes without saying Bob, we are intelligent adults here who have managed to reach the age with have
by ‘considering things and making decisions’.
Can we be sure that the ‘Medical Professionals’ are recommending medication for all the right reasons. Can we put our trust wholly in that of our Doctors; Doctor Harold Shipman was trusted by his patients, and we all know what happened to some of those…
Again we can never be sure about anything there are good and bad people in all walks of life.
One thing is for sure, I trust the advice of my doctors who know about my complicated medical history over someone on a chat forum who knows nothing about me at all.
Very well said Meg I take several medications I trust my doctor to look at what I take and measure the risk of adding to the cocktail. They don’t always get it right but they know a heck of a lot more about me and the medications than anyone on a forum would.
Last Sept/Oct I was ill for about 6 weeks with severe Campylobacter which depleted my natural resources so, although I have never had 'flu, I agreed to have a 'flu jab in November - never again - I felt really ill for about 10 days afterward. My GP just tut-tutted and said it happens sometimes.
This year I respectfully declined the jab and am just making sure my freezer is stuffed with good, homemade soups, stews etc., Lots of onions and garlic should keep the bugs away - as well as the vampires!
Exactly. If we can’t trust our doctors to act in our best interest, then who can we trust. And I think using Harold Shipman as an example of a bad doctor is hardly a reflection on the rest of the medical profession.
There are indeed some rotten apples but they are the exceptions.
Dr Graham Chapman (of Monty Python) said in his book “A liars autobiography”, you should not trust doctors. After all, they’re just ex - medical students.
I’ve found that, off-the-record, doctors will often tell you different things to what they say in the surgery. I fear that many times they are just toeing the party line and prescribing whatever medications NICE says that we should take. A sort of “one size fits nobody” approach.
I don’t blame the doctors entirely, but while they may understand medicine, I’m not sure that they always understand people.
Some really crazy comment still pervading this thread.
Seems I need to iterate to the clique “mob” again that it is not ME that is making the statements as to why the flu jab is largely worthless. They keep directing their childish jabs and sneers towards me as it suits their agenda but all the while they conveniently choose to ignore the simple fact that the data I am presenting is coming from an internationally respected medical and scientific body consisting of many 1000s of professional employees.
All these pages of thread, largely nonsense and anecdotal drivel and still not one single person has put up any kind of evidence or research to counter that research that I have highlighted. Not a single one! Yet here they are arguing tooth and nail about the topic! Go figure!
It is quite clear to most of the rational population that doctors and nurses can not and must not be offhandedly trusted to give out either accurate or uptodate information. Sure we must listen to what they say but we should always go and check the statements and facts against available data that can be found with a little determined searching.
The “mob” here would, if they were left to their own devices, see to it that the next horrendous Thalidomide event would happen as they would take Doctor’s at face value, have any old vaccine that they thought they needed WITHOUT themselves doing the research to see if there exists scientific and independent data to support the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine. That’s a terrible mind set to have. Thank God there are more sensible and rational people out there challenging all this kidology !!
Now that post is pure rubbish many of us would never allow a statin to pass our lips because we have seen others experience the problems they bring, and many other medications personally I want nothing to do with, I prefer seeking others with real life experience than testers who likely never see a human being during their research.
As with much in life I prefer experienced people telling me how it is to the experts who really only know how things work on paper.
I’ll take my chances with the flu vaccine. Thanks for your time spent copy&pasting though.
This is utter nonsense. I really don’t understand why you say such things. Presumably you haven’t bothered to read the study from the Cochrane Library. What is the point discussing something if you’re not going to review the facts being presented to you?
Let me highlight the number of HUMANS involved in this particular Cochrane study. It included:
69 clinical trials of over 70,000 people
27 comparative cohort studies (about eight million people)
20 case-control studies (nearly 25,000 people).
23 reports of the effectiveness and safety of vaccine administration in pregnant women (about 1.6 million mother-child couples).
Quite a lot of people wouldn’t you say?
How many humans is your own viewpoint based on?
Again the implications you are making are utterly ludicrous.
None of the facts in the study are theoretical/paper studies. They were clinical trials, case control studies, randomised controlled trials.
Are you seriously suggesting we should listen solely to the views of a single GP or a handful of friends with anecdotal non-scientific viewpoints over the systematic reviews of hundreds of controlled studies involving millions of people?
Thanks but no thanks.
For those still interested in researching the effectiveness or not of the flu vaccination I thoroughly recommend you read through this article which presents the situation well. It takes you through the dilemma we all have in wanting to do the right thing and presents a lot of factual data. I found it extremely useful.
Some of the highlights:
“we find that as the coverage rate for vaccination improved the death rate actually increased not decreased”
“in actuality the number of lives lost to the flu by percentage is less than 1%”
“A February 14, 2005 study published in the Archives of Internal Medicine examined the influenza related deaths in the entire US elderly population. The authors expected that since influenza vaccination had greatly increased over the last 25 years that there should be a reduction in mortality by about 35% to 40%. What they found instead was no reduction in death despite increased vaccination”
“public officials only need to claim that the vaccine saves lives and most people, including doctors, assume there is solid research behind the claim and unfortunately that is not the case”
[I]"So what are we supposed to do to help us not get sick?
In this randomized clinical trial, daily supplementation with 1200 IU vitamin D3 in school children between December and March showed a significant preventive effect against influenza A, although no significant difference was observed for influenza B… daily dietary probiotic supplementation was a safe effective way to reduce fever and other symptoms in small children. Moreover, a significant preventive effect of a product containing echinacea, propolis, and vitamin C on the incidence of respiratory tract infections was observed in children.
We could use vitamin D – you produce this if you get good amount of sunshine – probiotics, vitamin C, and other natural options. We can also be careful to wash our hands properly and even use a face mask when appropriate.
But is your local pharmacy or your doctor or the CDC going to tell to make sure you wash your hands, get plenty of sunlight, take lots of vitamin C and D, get proper rest, and the many other things to keep you from coming down with the flu or other illness? Don’t hold your breath. Right now they believe in and push a mythical magic wand to keep you from getting the flu and that’s not going to stop anytime soon"[/I]
I’ve heard so many bad stories about people who got the jab and still got the flu, (sometimes worse than a normal dose) that the thing doesn’t work as we are led to believe it does, I do believe the public are fed a lot of lies on a regular basis by the governments, and I don’t accept a doctors word as gospel either, so when in doubt I stay away from it and take me chances like I always have.
I think you pretty much nailed it. We either will or won’t come down with flu