Donald Trump’s threats of revenge fuel alarm in US

Controversial: Politics & Govt Politics & Govt: In The News
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Donald Trump’s talk of punishing his critics and seeking to “weaponize” the US justice department against his political opponents has experts and former DoJ officials warning he poses a direct threat to the rule of law and democracy in the US.

Trump’s talk of seeking “retribution” against foes, including some he has branded “vermin”, has coincided with plans that Maga loyalists at right-wing thinktanks are assembling to expand the president’s power and curb the DoJ, the FBI and other federal agencies. All of it has fuelled critics’ fears that in a second term Trump would govern as an unprecedentedly authoritarian American leader.

Trump and his Maga allies plan to tighten his control at key agencies and install trusted loyalists in top posts at the DoJ and the FBI, permitting Trump more leeway to exact revenge on foes, and shrinking agencies Trump sees as harbouring “deep state” critics.

Ominously, Trump has threatened to tap a special prosecutor to “go after” Biden and his family.

Trump’s angry mindset was revealed on Veterans Day when he denigrated foes as “vermin” who needed to be “rooted out”, echoing fascist rhetoric from Italy and Germany in the 1930s.

“I’m hard-pressed to find any candidates anywhere who are so open that they would use the power of the state to go after critics and enemies,” said Steven Levitsky, a Harvard government professor and co-author of How Democracies Die.

“This is one of the most openly authoritarian campaigns I’ve ever seen. You have to go back to the far-right authoritarians in the 1930s in Europe or in 1970s Latin America to find the kind of dehumanizing and violent language that Trump is starting to consistently use.”

Trump’s revenge gameplan has been palpable for months. At a kickoff campaign rally in Texas in March, Trump warned: “Either the deep state destroys America or we destroy the deep state,” and vowed that “for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution.”

Similarly, Trump pledged to a CPAC gathering in March that: “I am your warrior. I am your justice,” and called 2024 “the final battle”.

On Veterans Day, Trump also warned: “The threat from outside forces is far less sinister, dangerous and grave than the threat from within.”

Blimey … mad, bad and increasingly dangerous to those who defy him … :091:

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That’s why there’s the balance of powers in the Constitution. He wanted to do the same stuff when he was President before but he didn’t know how the structure of the government worked. He probably still doesn’t.

Did he learn more devious ways to get more control? Maybe. But I doubt it.

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We’ve seen what the MAGA mob is capable of though.

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That’s a laugh…Trump wants to weaponize the Department of Justice…
That’s exactly what Biden and Democrats have done to him…Used the DoJ to harass and discredit him with their continuous law suits, when really it’s given Trump the power to still be a credible opponent to sleepy Joe. I hope he wins the next election…
:us:

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Point of law (USA):

lawsuit | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute.

A lawsuit is a civil legal action by one person or entity (the plaintiff) against another person or entity (the defendant), to be decided in a court. Depending on the remedy sought and the venue where the plaintiff files the lawsuit, the case might be heard by a court of law or a court of equity.

AFAIK, the only civil lawsuit against Trump is the New York State Fraud case.

All the other legal charges/cases are criminal.

In all, Trump faces 91 felony counts across two state courts and two different federal districts, any of which could potentially produce a prison sentence. He’s also dealing with a civil suit in New York that could force drastic changes to his business empire, including closing down its operations in his home state.

Trump is a serial litigant:

Personal and business legal affairs of Donald Trump - Wikipedia.

From the 1970s until he was elected president in 2016, Donald John Trump Sr. and his businesses were involved in over 4,000 legal cases in U.S. federal and state courts, including battles with casino patrons, million-dollar real estate lawsuits, personal defamation lawsuits, and over 100 business tax disputes. He has also been accused of sexual harassment and sexual assault, with one accusation resulting in Trump being held civilly liable.

The latest:

Donald Trump’s Truth Social platform has filed a lawsuit against 20 media organisations for making what it claims to be defamatory statements about the company’s financial losses.

In the lawsuit, filed in the 12th Judicial Court of Sarasota County, Florida, on Monday, Trump Media & Technology Group (TMTG) accuses the “reckless and malicious” outlets of falsely reporting that the company had lost $73m since its launch.

The company claims that the “false reporting” was part of a “seemingly coordinated effort to destroy TMTG and Truth Social”.

The usual “bully-boy” tactic from Trump … :roll_eyes:

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Hi

I do not like the American system for appointing judges, heads of services and even local sheriffs.

If a President makes it even more controllable by being personally able to more easily appointment people who he can instruct then it is no longer a President, it is a Dictator.

The problem with that is that the next one in could be someone you don’t like.

The thought of someone like Corbyn in charge with all his mates running everything is horrendous.

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Law suits, criminal suits or whatever they are Omah, there are an awful lot of Americans (including me who is not American) that think it’s Biden and the democrats who are using the law for their own purposes and come election day either I will be proved right or wrong but either way…Trump seems to have a lot of support.

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Well, you’re patently wrong in this case, even before election day - Trump’s been using the (civil) law for his own purposes for decades and now the (criminal) law has caught up with him … I expect Trump to be banged up and live out what’s left of his life behind bars … :neutral_face:

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I can only think that you are not closely following the x4 criminal cases and x1 civil case against Trump.
The criminal case in Georgia, that accuses Trump and his friends of attempting to illegally overthrow the election result in that state, looks very robust. Four co-defendants have already pleaded guilty and in return for immunity are going to be witnesses against Trump and the remaining codefendants. Think about that - four people very close to the Trump have worked out that the case is so robust and justified that they are going to speak against Trump.
The criminal case in Florida is looking equally robust. Trump is on tape saying that he was fully aware that he missed the opportunity to declassify these secret documents. He said that after he stepped down as president but before the case was brought. He knew it was wrong to take and keep these documents but he still did it then denied it was done or wrong. Looks like a clear case of Trump at fault and not admitting it. His only hope here is a Republican judge whom he appointed presiding over the case and doing everything she can to ditch the case. Not a Democrat political action but a Republican one.
The Washington criminal case that accuses Trump of attempting to instigate a coup on 6 Jan is in the early stages. Again it looks like a strong case given what Trump did, what he said or did not say at the time and the likelihood that some witnesses in the Georgia might also be used in this case. Let’s face facts - Trump attempted to overthrow a legal vote for Biden.
Lastly, in the civil case in New York, Trump’s guilt in fraudulent business actions has already been established. That is now fact. He committed fraud. His decisions, his fault. The trial is now only about establishing penalties.
So we can see the common thread in all these cases - Trump is guilty and brought about this guilt himself. So as a Trump supporter, would you prefer everyone just shrugs and says “hey, to prosecute this guy is so unfair and so political”?

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I note that in one case (federal case charging Trump with insurrection) Trump and his lawyers have decided on a cornerstone defense. That is - he can’t be charged with not defending the constitution because he never swore an oath to uphold the constitution. Yes that’s right, the person who has president of the US has come up with the wheeze that the president himself is not under any obligation to uphold the constitution. So can you drop this case please?

At what point do even the most ardent Trump fans note “hang on, that ain’t what our president should be saying”?

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Have you got a link?

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Thanks for the video but it appears to be only a political commentary. It does however link to what seems to be the presenter’s source:

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AFAIK, the Colorado trial is not a federal case nor is it charging Trump with insurrection.

Sat 18 Nov 2023

A Colorado judge on Friday allowed Donald Trump to remain on the ballot in the state’s election next year, but found that he “engaged in insurrection” by sparking the 6 January 2021 attack on the US Capitol by his supporters.

The ruling from Judge Sarah Wallace, which is almost certain to be appealed, rejects a bid by a group of Colorado voters to disqualify Trump under a rarely used amendment to the US constitution that bars officials who have engaged in “insurrection” from holding federal office.

The Colorado case, which was brought by a group of voters aided by the watchdog organization Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (Crew), was the first to go to trial and was viewed as a test case for the wider disqualification effort. Crew’s president, Noah Bookbinder, said the group would appeal the ruling. “The court’s decision affirms what our clients alleged in this lawsuit: that Donald Trump engaged in insurrection based on his role in January 6,” Bookbinder said in a statement.

Lawyers for the voters argued that Trump engaged in an insurrection by spreading false claims of widespread voter fraud following his defeat in the 2020 presidential election, summoning supporters to a rally in Washington and then urging them to march to the US Capitol, where Congress was meeting to certify the election results.

The ruling applies only to the Republican presidential primary and general election in Colorado. The state is rated as safely Democratic by nonpartisan political forecasters for the general election.

Donald Trump’s legal team has argued against an attempt to have him thrown off the presidential ballot in Colorado in 2024 by suggesting the wording of the U.S. Constitution’s insurrection clause does not apply to him.

The Colorado Supreme Court agreed to hear an appeal on a lawsuit filed by the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) watchdog group and Republican figures, who argue that Trump’s actions on January 6, 2021, violated Section Three of the 14th Amendment and therefore he should be prohibited from running for the White House again.

The section states a person who “engaged in insurrection or rebellion” after taking an oath of office to support the Constitution should be barred from running for office again. In a previous ruling, lower court judge Sarah B. Wallace said that Trump had “engaged in insurrection” on January 6, the day of the Capitol riot, but should remain on Colorado’s primary ballot as the wording of the 14th Amendment does not specifically mention preventing people from running for the presidency.

In their appeal against the Colorado lawsuit, Trump’s lawyers reiterated that the wording of Section Three does not apply to people running for president and that Trump technically did not swear an oath to “support” the Constitution. Instead, during his January 2017 inauguration, Trump swore to “preserve, protect and defend” the Constitution during his role as president.

“The framers excluded the office of President from Section Three purposefully,” Trump’s legal team wrote. “Section Three does not apply, because the presidency is not an office ‘under the United States,’ the president is not an ‘officer of the United States,’ and President Trump did not take an oath ‘to support the Constitution of the United States.’”

I’ll leave it to the lawyers and judges … :no_mouth:

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At a town hall forum in Iowa on Tuesday night, Trump - who has frequently lavished praise on strongmen like Russia’s Vladimir Putin and North Korea’s Kim Jong-un - threw petrol on the fire and danced around the flames. As some US news headlines put it, Trump seemed to confirm the worst fears of his critics - that he would become a “dictator” if re-elected to the US presidency. However, the exchange was a bit more complicated than that.

Fox News moderator Sean Hannity was attempting to prompt the former president to dismiss the accusation that, if elected next year, he planned to abuse presidential power to punish his enemies, as Trump has sometimes implied in past comments.

“You are promising America tonight, you would never abuse this power as retribution against anybody?” Hannity asked.

And that’s when Trump, again venturing into that grey area between humour and seriousness, said he wouldn’t abuse his power… “except for day one” of his next term in office. He added that he would take unilateral action on border security and energy extraction (to “drill, drill drill”, as Trump put it). “After that, I’m not a dictator,” he concluded.

Hopefully, Trump will be serving his “5 to 10” (or longer by then) … :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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Hi

To be honest, I do not feel that we here in the UK can claim to have a fantastic set of Politicians ourselves.

The present Government is hell bent on imploding yet again…We need sensible government, not idiots playing politics.