Cesar Millan (split from Barbara Woodhouse thread )

Caesar Milan - hes the man .
He trains the owners not the dogs .

Muddy I wouldn’t let that TV entertainer anywhere near any dog of mine, I have seen what he does to dogs.
He also uses e collars :twisted:

Totally agree!!
He sure doesn’t whisper to dogs, more like kicks them.

Ian Dunbar is my go-to for advice.

He is always on TV dealing with compromised dogs.
He doesn’t kick them he taps them with his foot .
I love the man
dogs love him too.

Call it what you will, in my opinion, it’s no way to train any dog.
He needs to ‘listen’ to the dogs, not ‘tap’ them!
I wonder how many of these dogs are now fear aggressive?

Muddy :slight_smile: here is a site listing some of the opposition to Millan by various organizations who are against cruel methods of training.

Millan has been sued a number of times and the making of his so called ‘training’ series dropped.
In 2013 A panned tour of the UK was ‘postponed’ in other words cancelled because of widespread opposition to his training methods by canine professionals here. This was the message put out at the time on social media …

We regret to inform you that the Cesar Millan Live: Trust Your Instincts Tour has been postponed due to unforeseen scheduling conflicts with Mr. Millan’s television obligations and other projects, requiring him to stay in the United States.
All tickets will be refunded to ticket holders from the original point of purchase.

I number of the videos showing his total ineptitude with regard to dog training have been removed for example one showing a lovely bull breed dog which he said was ‘dog aggressive’ when that was clearly not the case it was just under socialised, over excited and in need of training.
His remedy was to use the outdated method of ‘rolling’ the dog, pinning it to the ground with the use of force when it reacted to another dog opening it up to becoming fear aggressive because it would now associate the presence of dogs with pain,fear and a negative experience.

There were numerous videos of him forcing terrified dogs to comply with the use of choke chains, in one the dog passes out because its air supply is restricted, other dogs ‘close down’ their bodies freeze with fear making it impossible for them to learn anything but fear.
He also uses e collars now banned in Wales and many of us have been trying to get them banned here…

Pain and fear should have no part in dog training

This is how to train a dog without the use of fear or pain…


Or contact a member of the APDT …

they use positive reinforcement methods to train dogs not pain and fear…

CM was banned from giving his shows in Germany because of his training methods.

These dogs didn’t feel fear of aggression they were aggressive.
Dogs like this are dangerous .
A dog that has developed dangerous habits due to lack of proper training as a puppy needs different tactics .
Ceasar Milan has saved many dogs from being euthanised by retraining .
I love Ceasar Milan he really understands dogs .

I could see fear aggression in several of them, it’s not fear of aggression but fear that makes them aggressive.

Fear aggression doesn’t make a big dog attack a small one.
It’s doesn’t make a dog attack a child .
Most people only have nice properly socialised dogs .
As we in the Uk are a nation of animal lovers.
This is not so in the rest of the world .
America in common with many countries has a tradition of very agrees ove breeds .
Bred for their aggressive qualities in filas and pitbulls
Unless trained as pups these are not dogs that will be rehabilitated by a clicker
IMO the uk has it to the right that some breeds are banned here.
Many people get a dog with no more idea how to train it than fly in the sky.
Dogs IMO should be licensed and the licence should come with a leaflet on basic training.

Oh it can muddy, our late Duncan was fearful that fear come out as aggression towards dogs and people, children especially. We worked hard with him and he never bit anyone but he was always fearful

He wouldn’t be touching mine either.

From what I’ve seen of him, I don’t like him or his methods one bit.

Was he a small dog Julie ?
Small dogs are often quite aggressive
A bit like people
Short people often seem to be overly aggressive
Like Bamtem chickens who always want to take on the big cockerels :slight_smile:

In fact Ceasar Milan does go into fear aggression quite a lot .
He can tell by the bark and attitude of the dog what aggression is motivated by fear .
Many of his cases are chihuahuas who are notorious biters .

Muddy :slight_smile: fear of other dogs large or small can make a dog ‘fear aggressive’. They apply the 'freeze flight or fight ’ principle. My dog is fear aggressive with other dogs because she was attacked as a puppy.
She can’t use her ‘flight’ response if on a lead so she can freeze or fight and would choose the latter to ‘get in first’.
We have to approach other dogs with caution using positive reinforcement/distraction methods.

It’s doesn’t make a dog attack a child

Fear can cause a dog to attach a child based on ‘fear association’ I will give you an example, if a child hurts a dog it may associate a child/children with the pain it felt on a previous occasion and attack through fear of further pain .

Most people only have nice properly socialised dogs
Not so, many people are unaware of the importance of socialisation and don’t do it.

I never blame a child for being attacked by a dog .
Many dogs attack children not because they have been hurt by a child but that they see a child that as weaker member of the pack .
Further down the pecking order .
In the same way a horse if attacked by a stronger member of its herd will turn about and bite another below it in the pecking order
Dog owners should never leave a young child alone with a dog .
I have had many dogs over the years from horrendous circumstances in third world countries .
Some of these have been big potentially dangerous animals
I have touch wood never been bitten nor have my children. but I am always careful with dogs especially those that have come from bad places
Usually these dogs are pathetically grateful and happy to be in a good home and don’t cause a problem .
But they have issues as do children from bad upbringings
It is as is often seen in Ceasar milans programmes the dogs can also come from spoil but affluent enviroments .
Some people would have difficulty in controlling a goldfish much less a dog
They are potentially a dangerous creature .
Luckily most dogs are not like this .
I agree that some people simply do not socialise their dogs properly which is best done when they are small.
Like children unacceptable behaviour in dogs is just not acceptable .
Blaming it on children I notice is a great excuse for having a dog with unacceptable sociable habits .
My children love dogs and always have .
But young children can be rough and generally puppies don’t have a problem with that as they are rough too.
Of course too rough with a little dog will result in a bite.
Therefore small children and dogs must always be monitored .

You are way out of date with your ideas of ‘the pack concept’ Muddy :slight_smile: that has dismissed as not being valid long ago.

Try reading the latest research including the paper ‘Dominance in domestic dogs: useful construct or bad habit?’
by Bradshaw, J, Blackwell, E & Casey of University of Bristol School of Veterinary Sciences to get a little more up to date with canine behaviour .

Duncan was nervous when we got him had spent first 8 months of his life shut in a shed, was scared of trees and grass, his aggression started after he was neutered the vet said the lack of testosterone caused it. His fear just went off the scale.

Because someone dismisses and opinion dosent mean they are right!
As we can see quite clearly on the many discussions of the afterlife !
A dog still has many instincts of the wolf and a study of the lives of wolves and wild dogs show the importance of the pack and each dogs place in the pack.
I have lived and worked with horses all my life and know that on all groups of horses there is a pecking order.
There are as many ways to train animals as their are children .
All work to an extent .
As I said before Cesar Milan is dealing with dogs that are already compromised .
His methods work .

Dogs aren’t wolves, that is the first mistake people made when they said dogs were pack animals.

Oh dear :slight_smile: I can see I am wasting my time Muddy . I will leave you to go on admiring someone who thinks torturing a dog is acceptable.