The other day a young couple with a lil baby walked past me up my street. I asked Spanish? They responded no Turkey. Most likely well-paying jobs, living in a + $300,000 home Just down the street
from mine. Didn’t know they were there. I said, “Welcome to the neighborhood.” They were very nice.
We chatted a bit and said, "have a great day. " They laughed. I would guess they love the USA. Everywhere I travel in the 100 mile radi-circle around here I meet foreign speaking people, just off the Jet.
I can easily hazzard a guess of well over 100,000 population. Many start their own small businesses.
There were so many mt building left by the Covids.
I was not aware that this was a big number and a major issue. It was clear, pre-2021, that there were many Polish in the UK and increasing numbers of Romanians. Plus lots of French and Spanish. But non-EU natives (say Turkish or Syrian) who got citizenship of say Germany? What sort of numbers used that new citizenship to move to the UK?
I’d also note that the rules on EU free movement are pretty strict - if the host country wishes to apply them. So must pay tax, must have full medical insurance until gaining access to the host country state system, must have funds or a job, can’t immediately claim benefits, etc. The very lax UK application of these conditions is not the fault of the EU’s freedom of movement policy.
It is a fault of the EU, being a member of the EU has made us a lazy nation…
Well then explain how that comes about? Are you saying that the UK decided that because of the opportunities and benefits of being in the EU there was no need to verify that someone from another country could/would pay before giving them expensive hospital treatment? You funny guy.
If we are a lazy nation, we only have ourselves to blame OGF. I think this attitude goes back to the Empire days. Feet up and the money rolling in. etc.
Taking just two groups as an example :
I’m not sure of the situation now, but back when we were interrailing in the mid to late 80s, Vienna had a great many resident Turks. I’m not sure of the links - the Ottoman Empire? There are now estimated to be 500k Turks living in the UK. Back in 2001 the census records this as approx only 54k.
In the 80s there were about 7-8k of Brazillians living in the UK. Now it’s estimated to be 220k. Brazilians who can prove that they have one or both granparents/parents of Portuguese heritage can gain Portuguese citizenship.
You don’t think the astonishing increase in both these populations in the last 20 years has any connection to the EU free movement policy during that time?
1 Like
This page only partly supports your theory about Turkish in the UK.
It specifically states " Recently, smaller groups of Turks have begun to immigrate to the United Kingdom from other European countries". Most people cited at Turkish seem to be Turkish Cypriot rather than Turkish via citizenship in a EU country. So the alarmist 50k to 500k jump in numbers does not seem to be down to 450,000 Turks sneaking into the UK after gaining citizenship in some other EU country.
A similar wiki page about Brazilians provides no information or comments about the route Brazilians took to coming to the UK.
It does note the wide discrepancy between the official census numbers of Brazilians (about 90,000) and the estimates of actually how many live in the UK (as you cite, 220k). Now, why would someone who got to the UK legally, using a EU country passport, not openly state what their birth country was? The wiki page notes that the discrepancy could by due to people overstaying their visa (so not EU passport holders) or only staying temporarily. This does not support your theory about mass migration via Portuguese citizenship.
In answer to your question - looking behind the headline numbers you provided - no, I cannot see an astonishing leveraging of EU freedom of movement.
Because they did not complete the census as they were living in rented accommodation where the landlord did not offer them the census as it is per property rather than per person?
Census data is known to be hugely understated. It’s unfortunate that it’s used to plan and fund services.
These may be people who had temporary residency in the EU which meant that they did not require a visa to come here. So they came from countries which had some sort of link to their host EU countries, as we have with commonwealth nations etc.
My point is that EU free movement was not just a facility for EU nationals born in the EU, ethnically and culturally “European” but for people around the world who managed to gain some form of EU residency having entered a host nation. Those people could then come to the UK if we offer universal free movement of young people as proposed. They could be from anywhere in the world.
We already have a massive problem with people who come here legally and outstay their visas. Despite all the talk, despite Brexit, little has been achieved to reduce the inward flow of nationals from outside the EU. As mentioned they do not end up in Census data which is used to fund services. It’s a real mess because the government are using punitive measures to try to deter people, but they are not ready for the ensuing chaos when such measures are put in place. We don’t have the policing and control and support systems in place to deal with that chaos. So police time and money is being deflected to managed that mess rather than fight crime.
As Brexit was a complaint by many voters against mass immigration of people entering via the EU free movement route, the Government has it’s back against the wall on this issue. There is nothing to stop this being a new option for economic refugees crossing in boats. I’m sure some EU nations would ensure they obtained the right papers if it meant that they could come to Britain.
1 Like
Hey, I’m not saying there was never anyone who got to live in the UK by taking advantage of gaining citizenship somewhere else in the EU. I am saying that your claims of hundreds of thousands from certain countries using this route is not supported by the information. Your example of Turkish nationals is particularly misleading as 350,000 are Cypriots from the Turkish side of Cyprus. As this is fully in the EU this is immigration of native born of an EU country. So your claim is simply wrong in this example because you did not check the data behind the headline number.
And as for your empty and unjustified claim that “I’m sure some EU nations would ensure they obtained the right papers”. Please, cite some reference for this claim or just tag it as “personal prejudice view based on no information whatsoever”.
What is to stop Turkish nationals from Turkey moving to Turkish Cyprus in order to gain access to EU countries?
1 Like
That’s just my own opinion based on my knowledge of human psychology.
While outside the EU Belarus guards starve, beat and put a gun to the head of refugees they have driven to the border with Poland to stop them turning back, EU nations would take an alternative approach to ensure that they can hand over responsibility. For example in France, there was absolutely no reason for makeshift camps to be based in Calais for years. They could have cleared and banned these camps years ago and ensured the people who went there were rehoused and stopped from sitting on the beach every night waiting for opportunities.
There is nothing to stop them rubber stamping a document when they know that a citizen is not granted the services in the originating country that they can expect for free in the UK. You think this doesn’t happen? That all countries in the EU are above such a tactic?
2 Likes
I wasn’t basing that on immigration Lincs, I was basing it on the fact that we send most of our young people to university, especially those who are practical and not academically suited. Therefore we have a shortage of skilled trades. During our membership of the EU we have accepted skilled workers from other countries and neglected producing our own.
Furthermore, we are quite happy to accept food and produce grown in the EU and have neglected our own farming industry. The same can be said of our steel producing, engineering, fishing, mining, energy production…The list is endless. Of course Brussels encourages this to make sure we tow the line and become so reliant on the EU handouts that attempt to sweeten the pot, that we have become lazy and heavily dependant. That’s why it is so difficult to break the chains that shackle us to the EU. But those chains must be broken or else it will be impossible for us to ever stand on our two feet again.
We were conned, You were conned, but consider yourself to be too intelligent to be fooled in such a way, so you drink from the EU cup and neglect the country of your birth and allow it to fall into the hands of people who don’t care about the heritage, customs, history and people of the UK. To you, and them it’s all about money and power…
that’s nowt to do with the EU and everything to do with international economics. It was far mor efficient to import ready made goods at a fraction of the price from China than to make it ourselves. Ref food - It’s impossible economically for us to grow tea, coffee, pineapples, bananas, avocados lemons, oranges, rice, as examples here. Are you happy to give up your morning cuppa in favour of living in an isolated cave-type existence? That is not the way humanity has survived. It’s why neanderthals died out.
1 Like
You are talking trivialities Annie, I’m talking about the fishing industry, Mining, Energy, proper food production. I’m not saying it was all down to the EU, nothing is that simple. The economics and lost industries, and the shortage of indigenous workers is not down to one thing but many things, and the EU with their red tape and insistence on Net Zero is just another reason why the UK has turned out the way it has. If the solution was that simple somebody would have thought of it already, but that doesn’t mean we should all get despondent and chuck in the towel and beg the EU to take us back. The British are better than this and we can come out of this recession if we put our minds to it. The first step is to take back our independence and replace that bunch of nomarks that are currently running the country. The next step is to benefit from the resources on hand, coal for example, and start using the land for supplying our food and not building houses and warehouses. Get people back to work, paying taxes and producing stuff in house, whatever the cost. Try using some of the money we waste on other peoples wars and silly projects like HS2 and subsidise our farmers and fishing industry. And brick up that bloody channel tunnel… 
your proposal would result in the UK turning into venezuela
Fair challenge. Got me on that one.
Or to paraphrase “I’ve just made this up”. Thanks for confirming.
If you google European residency rules and look for which are the easiest EU countries for residency, you will find this sort of thing - each country is not the same and some are more than happy to grant residency which can then lead to citizenship after 5 years, those citizens can then happily travel around the EU regardless of where they originate. The countries granting this easy residency are not the sort of countries migrants are ultimately headed :
How to Get EU Citizenship: The Ultimate Guide | Get Golden Visa.
and cyprus is one of the easiest countries to obtain residency in.
Isn’t “easiest country to get residence in” a very relative thing? Surely they have rules for entry, you can’t just turn up. (unless you are a genuine refugee)
You can enter most countries on a 90 day visa for visitors, then sort out the residency requirements during that time.