I don’t have a dog in the fight or know a lot about Brexit. Just saw this article and thought others here might be interested.
According to the poll, which only had 2,000 people surveyed, only 22% of voters in the UK think that Brexit was good for the UK in general. Surprisingly (to me), half of leave voters have decided that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control immigration.
It was always going to fail , at the time if you spoke against it you were accused of scaremongering or being a remoaner, then you get folks saying it wasn’t the brexit we voted for, no, it was exactly what you were voting for, to leave a club and still expect the same benefits, brexit was all about subjugation of the British people, we are the only country in history to vote for sanctions against itself…
I don’t really know what the Brexiteers thought Brexit succeeding would look like
Brexit seemed to be a different thing to different Brexiteers, all thinking it would solve the our woes and fulfill their own preferences and prejudices
The Brexit outcomes they were promised, by the likes of Johnson, Farage etc, “having our cake and eating it”, “£350 million to the NHS” were just lies, never a possibility to take in those stupid enough to believe it
And the ones who voted Brexit out of xenophobia, racism and wanting to return us to a rose tinted 1950s, well the world has moved from all that crap, fortunately, and decent people were never going to let them have what they wanted on that
So, if you consider almost half of those voters in the survey voted to Remain anyway and never expected any benefits - probably 48%
Then over half of those who voted Brexit either realise they made a huge mistake or still think they were right and blame the government and Remainers for the benefits they wanted not being delivered - probably 30%
And the rest are just die hard Brexiteers who will say Brexit is great and delivering, despite there not being any evidence of it - probably 22%
Gawd knows what they think they are and it’s no good asking them, you can’t argue with blind faith
David Cameron should never have held a referendum, if anyone failed to understand what he was doing, he was the instigator of UK problems. Yes/No vote was the easiest option for the government and the worst for the electorate.
This is quite a common claim by those who continue to support Brexit. The idea is, I guess, that there is a brilliant Brexit - we just have not got it. One presumes this brilliant Brexit is an even greater split from Europe. Ditch the trade agreement, etc. It would be interesting to know what this brilliant Brexit involves and just how it will improve things. I mean, “we are free to do what we want” so what exactly is it that we need to do?
Thanks, I know.
I kind of wanted someone who bleats about “Brexit hasn’t been done” have a go at explaining their vision of a complete Brexit. And, most importantly, how doing even more of what Brexit has put in place thus far will make things better. I’m keen to see what the argument is that says so far we’ve gone 70% (my guess, others can guess too) of the way to a complete Brexit, and its been damaging, therefore if we go nearer to 100% of Brexit then it will not make the damage worse. In fact it will make it all better. Its like the hole digging scenario. Most would suggest stopping as you’re digging yourself into a hole. This “better Brexit” claim actually says no, dig even more and faster, that is the way out of the hole. Ideally those supporting this “dig faster” claim should put detail on exactly how it will be beneficial.
This reminds me of die-hard lefties who, after the eastern block had collapsed, kept claiming that communism as such was a good idea, yet unfortunately it was badly done in eastern Europe. It can never be done properly.
I have no axe to grind over BREXIT, but it was a] a free vote. b] the majority was in favour to leave 49% to stay and 51% to leave. So the main argument for a fresh BREXIT vote is, “to close a majority,” so lets have another vote.
I would accept this logic, but for the fact most MP’s do not have an overall majority of votes cast. So if come the next election the following should happen.
a] If any candidate does not receive a clear majority, then the electorate should vote again until the he/she as a clear majority. and b] The party in government should have 1] an overall majority in both MP’s and total votes cast within the UK.
It should have stopped at EFTA. A mistake to integrate further. Having made the mistake and seen our traditional ways and industries decline over the years, it was too late to get out. The damage was done and it was another mistake to think it could be reversed. In view of that, I think we should have stayed in the EU.
I have no skin in the game either (though I worry about the future of my nieces and nephews) but from afar it looked like a complete stuff up from beginning to end.
The plebiscite was ill-conceived giving no idea as to the desired outcome, the campaign was a tissue of lies again with neither side suggesting what the outcome would really look like, the vote itself was too close for such an important decision, while the parliamentary process and actual negotiations with the EU bordered on farce.
It might have amused and bemused the rest of the world but the final outcome satisfied no one in the UK and despite a lot of wishful thinking has left Britain poorer, directionless and with few friends in their region.
Adding to the absurdity of the whole thing the instigator of the whole mess is now an unelected Foreign Secretary - that has to be the cruellest joke of all.
The principle argument for a fresh Brexit vote is that the 2016 vote was too simplistic and undefined - in or out. The “out” was not set out or explained, it was “just leave” and not “under these terms”. This meant anybody could subsequently define the details of “out” - whether sensible or hard. That was not democratic as no-one was able to vote for the leave terms imposed. But having said all that, I agree that there won’t be a re-vote for decades.
As for your subsequent notes about voting for MP’s - forget your re-vote idea and simply opt for PR. I think that is what you are beginning to describe.
Your opinion of UK paints a picture of general doom and gloom Bruce but don’t think we are all going around wringing our hands in wretchedness. Everyday life goes on much the same as it did when we were in the EU. There’s food in the shops and goods aplenty for those who can afford them. There’s the rich the poor, housed and homeless, haves and have nots. All the same as when in the EU. This is also the case for countries that are in the EU.The same in your own land so I read.
Things that matter on a day to day level are just the same as they were for many of the population. Travel abroad may not be as smooth but it doesn’t seem to have stopped any of our neighbours from jetting or sailing away on holidays abroad. Our daughter is about to go back to Spain after spending Christmas and New Year here. She was only here a few months ago, so travel difficulties don’t appear to be that bad.
I’m lucky enough to be typing this post being well feed and from comfortable home as hopefully many of the UK Over 50’s membership are. Certainly not down and out or a load of miseries because of the political situation that’s for sure.
Life goes on, I’m sure things (for me personally) would be/feel no different if we were still a part of the union.
But I do feel a little sad about all the time & money wasted. I suppose I should feel embarrassed about the whole business but I don’t. The rest of the EU (members excluding Germany and possibly France) see us as heroes. They want independence but daren’t fight for it.
The rest of the EU (members excluding Germany and possibly France) see us as heroes. They want independence but daren’t fight for it.
That is not correct. There are a minority who want out of the EU in all countries, but only a noisy minority. And no-one sees the UK exit as heroic. I’ve heard the word ‘brave’ (as in foolhardy) but not heroic. Other than Hungary and Orban all other countries can see and understand the benefits of the EU. And even Hungary won’t opt out. They’ve seen what happened to the UK.