Just to be clear - I voted remain and strongly believe in European unity, but what Brussels have been doing in the last few years is not creating unity. They should focus on harmonisation of trade and not meddle in state politics.
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I only read the DT.
The Guardian is not on my Radar, they keep begging for money to survive on, (see their web page)
Effective newspapers don’t have that problem - people buy the good papers.
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We are neighbours, so we need to be united, I agree.
But not run by them.
Having seen how good they were to consolidate a response to the Ukraine invasion, I just hope that we never have to depend on them to support us!
Edited to add:_
And the EU choice to build pipelines, from the frozen North, instead of being self sufficient on fuel, is mind blowing. I guess that they thought Russia to be trust worthy!
But we did much the same - but not totally-
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@AnnieS My point !!exactly!! We agree our leadership was and is shit !
But that doesn’t make the people responsible does it ?
We can only work with the shit we are given can’t we ?
And it seems that the shit is coming from the same source ??
Perhaps we should do something about that ? 
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Any terms would be better than staying out, and as the misery Brexit causes deepens, we really will need to go back in. We’ll never get back the terms we had before, the Brexiters threw that away for us, but we’ll just have to take that hit to survive and put the blame on the Brexiters
When the Brexiters betrayed our EU alliance, they took us out of the club and made our countries rivals.
So there is absolutely no reason why the EU should collaborate with us or help us sort out the problems of our own making in any way at all. They don’t owe us anything.
They are fully entitled to throw up any red lines they please that they feel would benefit them
And I would think main the lesson they,should have learned from all this, is that the U.K. can’t be trusted on alliances and commitments and won’t honour any agreements we make, as the Ireland situation demonstrates
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What car industry that exists in the UK today exists because of the single market. Nissan, Honda etc. would not have set up factories in the UK if they could not leverage our place in the single market to sell into Europe.
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That was a result of the Merkel/Putin special relationship & the arrangement did not include the whole EU as individual states manage their own power supplies. It was clear to some that it was only stable while she was in power. She needed something to offset germany closing down its nuclear infrastructure post Fukushima. Kneejerk reaction.
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Not just single market but geographic proximity to market. So long as Britain & the EU are pragmatic in arrangements the market should still exist. The politics is one thing, on the ground businesses are creating workarounds.
The risks outweigh the benefits now so it wouldn’t be worth our while now. I agree that Brexit ruined our strong position. But there is no point going back on less favourable terms.
The benefits might not have been any different had we stayed with the same deal that we signed with the EU way back.
i.e. Before we gave our Independence away.
Luckily, we stayed out of the Euro.(Ponzi)
Had we signed up for that we’d be lost for ever by now!
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totally agree about the Euro.
So, let’s summarise our benefits.
Nearly all our cars are German. (none British)
Our railways (trains & ownership) are Other EU Countries.
Our busses are bought in from elsewhere.
Our Merchant Ships have contracted out to more favourable tax countries.(not the EU).
What do we Brits still Do?
These were British Governmental decisions over the years. e.g the French govt owns much of their power supply, ours does not.
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Was that not done when we were In the EU?
We should all be embarrassed that we have given away so much!
Our chummy EU partners bled us dry!
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I do not think that the other EU countries bled us dry - much more that the UK governments have been happy to sell off or see bought out so much of our industry. Yes, its easy to spot owners such as French EDF as they brand the same way in the UK - but who actually owns the water companies? Not just EU owners.
Cadbury’s, ARM Holdings, Asda, GKN, G4S, RSA (More Than), Meggitt, Wilkington Sword and more have been bought by US companies - not EU companies. Sorry, ARM was bought by the Japanese. As was Pilkington.
There is a distinct (and often unfounded) anti-EU sentiment by some people and most often it is unwarranted. The EU is not and has never been ‘out to get the UK’. That thinking is pure chip on the shoulder “why can’t be successful too, its not fair” behaviour.
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yes and yes we should because our governments gave it away. Why did the French not give it away? Because they managed their country better than we did.
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@strathmore But shouldn’t “freind’s” advise each other that they are giving their
wealth away ? Not climb in on the bandwagon with the other sharks ?
What are freind’s for after all ??
You can place your question about fish now if you like ??
Indeed, it’s large multinationals that have made deals with the various British governments. Kwarteng’s champagne with hedge fund leaders sums up what has happened in the past when big business and politics becomes entwined.
that would be interference in sovereign state decision making
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I never used the word ’ friend’, only saying that EU businesses are not always enemies. You’ve got be pretty naïve to think that business is full of ‘friends’ giving sensible advice. If the UK wanted to sell off stuff then why would any business turn down the opportunity. I recall that the owner of Stagecoach, at the time of the rail sell off, saying that he’d be daft not to stick his snout into the rich trough that the UK government had decided to set up.
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