Brexit benefits - where are they?

This is part of what David Frost says, in the DT, today:-
"
The broader truth is this whole Remainer campaign is based on a fallacy. Brexit isn’t failing.

Look at the most recent GDP figures we have, from the OECD this week, covering the period since Brexit actually happened economically at the end of 2020. Since then, this country has grown faster than Germany, France, Italy, Spain or the Eurozone overall. You won’t learn that from the BBC.

Yes, our EU trade has fallen off a few per cent. That is to be expected in leaving the customs union and single market. But trade is not GDP. Some assert a link between trade and productivity, but it is not proven for advanced economies, and it is empirically disproven for the UK: our worst productivity performance ever came in the decade before Brexit when we were more closely integrated into the single market than ever before.

But Brexit isn’t only about economics anyway. It’s about democracy.

I am sometimes confronted by angry Remain campaigners who ask “can you tell me just one benefit of Brexit? Just one?” My simple answer is: “being able to change things at elections”.

EU member states are only semi-democracies in any meaningful sense of the word. If you are a voter in an EU country, you can’t change at an election your country’s policy on trade, food and product standards, VAT, immigration, most services, competition, consumer protection, farming, fisheries, employment law, environmental protection, energy, much of justice and law enforcement, much public health policy, or support for industries or poorer regions.

If you are in the euro, add interest rate, debt, and deficit policy. All you can do is choose a government that will try to change these things – if it can persuade the Commission and all the other countries. Somehow, it never can.

Why would we want to go back to that, to get, perhaps, one day, 0.5 per cent on our GDP?

No. The benefits of Brexit are in running our economy to suit us. In the long run they will be much bigger. True, perhaps we haven’t made a great start. But look through the noise, and remember that leaving the EU is about freedom, self-government, and democracy. And kicking the rascals out if they don’t deliver."

3 Likes

This is a point that has been well made before in this thread and is probably the only, but important, benefit.

Well? When is Britain to become a democracy? It is certainly about time the upper house of government was elected, perhaps now is the time.

There are no benefits, someone needs to tell the folks in the dinghy’s

Like your change of GIF, the discharge rate in the first one was a bit disconcerting. :icon_wink:

You’re too sharp Spitty!

I get up early.

1 Like

The early :eagle: catches the :worm: but the second :mouse2: gets the :cheese:

The rodents are in short supply, early GMT, a normal person could get “Cheesed Off”, good job normality is miles away. :laughing:

1 Like

This is no surprise. Brexit supporters went out of their way to insist that their vote to leave was in no way racist, and we should believe them. Unfortunately, at the same time, much of the rhetoric used to celebrate the vote to leave the UK walked a line between being anti-EU and anti-European. This rhetoric walked this line badly with negative comments against Europe as a whole and France & Germany in particular. I’m not surprised that Europeans feel unwelcome in the UK. After all, the UK has taken a combative stance against the EU, has celebrated leaving the EU and refuses to acknowledge any benefits from being in the EU. You don’t feel welcome when someone sticks two fingers up at you.

Crumbs talk about a misleading heading, You need to read the actual article to get the true picture:

Britain has 4,285 fewer European doctors than if the rising numbers who were coming before the Brexit vote in 2016 had been maintained since then, according to analysis by the Nuffield Trust health thinktank which it has shared with the Guardian.

In 2021, a total of 37,035 medics from the EU and European free trade area (EFTA) were working in the UK. However, there would have been 41,320 – or 4,285 more – if the decision to leave the EU had not triggered a “slowdown” in medical recruitment from the EU and the EFTA quartet of Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Lichtenstein.

Brexit has had a far more damaging effect on the NHS’s ability to hire nurses from the EU. While 9,389 nurses and midwives who had trained in the bloc came to work in Britain in 2015-16, only 663 did so in 2021-22, data released by the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) in May showed. However, that dramatic drop has been offset by a huge rise in the number of those professionals coming from the rest of the world, notably India and the Philippines, the regulator said. A report due this week from the NMC is expected to confirm the trends have continued in recent months.

The UK has 58,000 fewer nurses than if the numbers arriving pre-Brexit had continued. “Nursing saw a far more dramatic collapse in EU and EFTA migration around the time of the referendum, as mass recruitment ended and a new language test came in,” the NMC analysis said. While there are 29,000, that would have been as many as 87,000 if things had not changed in 2016, it estimated.

The Department of Health and Social Care rejected the thinktank’s findings.

A spokesperson said: “This analysis is inaccurate and we don’t recognise or agree with its key conclusions. We are making significant progress in training and recruiting a record number of nurses, doctors and healthcare professionals. There are over 9,000 more nurses working in the NHS and there are over 26,000 more hospital doctors now than in 2016.”

And what’s wrong in insisting that your doctor or nurse can actually speak English?

And why should we prioritise white Europeans over

However, that dramatic drop has been offset by a huge rise in the number of those professionals coming from the rest of the world, notably India and the Philippines, the regulator said. A report due this week from the NMC is expected to confirm the trends have continued in recent months.

I think you should take a look at your white faced EU MEPs rather than Brexiteers. And since the Brexit Party left there are fewer non white faces than when they were there.

Half a billion consumers. A combined GDP of £9 trillion. A naturally pro-free trade club. No wonder the UK wants to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans Pacific Partnership, or CPTPP.

During our 45 years in the European Union, we often heard that the UK was happy with the idea of a free trade area, but had became increasingly opposed to the political union that the European Economic Community, then the European Community and finally the European Union was becoming.

However, there can be no doubt that the CPTPP is a classic free trade area. It spans four continents across Asia Pacific and the Americas, and includes some of the world’s most dynamic economies. It includes no moves to any political union – indeed, it would be hard to see, say Canada and Vietnam agreeing to pool sovereignty.

Right now, we’re on the final furlong to membership. Securing a deal that’s in the best interest of the UK and our businesses is one of my top priorities as Trade Minister.

This will be the biggest deal we’ve secured post-Brexit. And we will become the first country in the world to join the trade bloc’s existing 11 founding members, giving us a seat at a highly influential top table on the global stage.

The benefits to the UK of membership for our businesses are too many to list in full.

Joining CPTPP should mean 99 per cent of UK exports become eligible for tariff-free trade with trade bloc’s members. This could mean that we secure lower tariffs on iconic UK exports such as whisky and cars – both of which are in fierce demand in the Indo-Pacific.

These benefits will only grow over time. The more CPTPP expands, the greater the benefits and opportunities to the UK. With economies including the Philippines, Thailand, Taiwan, South Korea, Ecuador and Costa Rica having all expressed an interest in joining.

We will be at the heart of a dynamic group of countries, set to experience an extraordinary economic expansion, as the centre of gravity for global trade and growth shifts eastwards.

Indeed, 60 per cent of global trade already passes though shipping routes in the region. And the IMF expects the Indo-Pacific region to account for more than half of global growth over the next thirty years, compared to a quarter from the EU and North America combined.

Our accession will send a powerful signal that the UK is using our post-Brexit freedoms to futureproof the economy. We’re securing our place in the world in a network of countries committed to free and rules-based trade, one that rivals the single market as a global standards setter.

Under Donald Trump, the US withdrew from the bloc’s predecessor, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), but the United States joining CPTPP cannot be excluded for ever.

There is a window of opportunity for the UK to join this free trade family and help sets robust standards which level the playing field and fight against unfair and coercive trading practices.

Our place in CPTPP could also help us build on our individual relationships with fellow members. It interweaves nicely with the bilateral trade deals we’ve been negotiating – and we’ve already signed ambitious trade deals with Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

We’ve secured a bespoke Digital Economy Agreement with Singapore, capitalising on our two nations’ pioneering tech sectors.

And we’re currently underway negotiating modern trade deals with Mexico and Canada which will look to bring digital and services to the forefront.

As the world’s second-largest services exporter, CPTPP, which puts services front and centre, will play to Britain’s strengths. We’re looking forward to potentially making digital trade easier and smoother and driving more growth for our businesses.

I’m often asked what this deal will mean for agriculture. I’m convinced that CPTPP membership will benefit farmers too by opening export opportunities for our world-class produce. With CPTPP countries set to account for 25 per cent of global import demand for meat by the end of the decade, joining would support farmers to sell high-quality produce like beef and lamb into fast-growing markets like Korea and Vietnam.

Indeed, I often observed, during negotiations with Australia and New Zealand on agriculture, that our Commonwealth friends are more interested in selling their meat into Asia than to us. That is where the demand is growing, and the UK should be thinking about export opportunities for our farmers, too.

CPTPP membership will not mean reneging on our high environmental protections, animal welfare and food standards. It has similarly high standards when it comes to this area. We’ll ensure our market access agreements protect the livelihoods of farmers and the values of consumers across the UK.

It would be remiss of me not to mention the benefits that we will bring to the bloc. The positives of the UK joining the CPTPP are not just one-sided. Overnight, CPTPP will grow from 12 per cent of world GDP to 15 per cent – taking the trade bloc’s GDP to around £11 trillion.

There is much that we can offer the region – thanks to our expertise in many of the twenty-first century’s key industries from cleantech such as offshore wind and green infrastructure to digital and financial services.

And as a like-minded friend and ally to CPTPP countries, we will bring a new, strong, persuasive voice to the partnership – making the case for shared values, high standards and increased collaboration to drive jobs, growth and prosperity across the CPTPP family.

However the watchword with these talks is quality – not speed. We’re making good progress with our negotiations but we won’t settle for anything less than the best for UK businesses. I am determined that we will achieve exactly that.

Joining CPTPP will not mean we would have to neglect our important trade with Europe. It is unlikely the EU itself would ever join, given that a lot of CPTPP rules are currently incompatible with EU rules. But having tariff-free, quota-free access to the EU, as well as similar provisions with the 11 countries of CPTPP, would put the UK in a powerful position in the free trading world.

It would also leave Labour in a quandary. I have always believed that Labour could seek to join a customs union with the EU. I doubt they would seek to join the Single Market, given that would inevitably mean having to sign up to free movement of people. But it was official Labour policy before 2019 to seek a customs union with the EU – indeed, it was Sir Keir Starmer himself, as Shadow Brexit Secretary, who formulated such a policy.

Despite occasional protestations, I do not believe Labour has ever given up on this goal. Joining an EU customs union would invalidate most, if not all, of our independent trade policy. Labour might then seek to fold our UK-Australia and UK-New Zealand agreements into wider EU ones (although the EU has yet to finalise one with Australia).

But Labour would have to pledge to withdraw the UK from CPTPP, which would create a new trade disruption for this country and would certainly anger some of our closest allies around the world, like Canada, Japan and Australia.

Our status as an independent nation is putting the UK in an enviable position. In addition to tariff-free, quota-free trade with the EU and bilateral free trade agreements with 71 countries, we’re looking to secure almost as good access to 11 per cent of world GDP around the Pacific Rim.

There are, in short, huge economic and political reasons for joining CPTPP. I look forward to celebrating the day!

1 Like

I’m sure that we are all pleased that Guy Hands is ‘convinced’ that this pacific trade deal will benefit everyone, including our farmers. No doubt he was similarly convinced that he knew what to do with EMI. How did that work out, Guy?
None of the trade deals with far away places can compensate for the trashing of trading with the EU, bang next door. Not even if you add them all together and multiply by 2. And that assumes they deliver the benefits the government claims … and that doesn’t always come true.

As per usual with the Guardian, you have to read to the end:

The Japanese Embassy in London said the deal “provides stability for Japanese and British companies to continue their business and trading activities with each other after Brexit”.

A Department for International Trade spokesperson said: “Global trade has been significantly impacted by Covid-19, and while trade flows can fluctuate in the short term due a variety of factors, our analysis shows that the UK-Japan CEPA could increase trade by nearly £16bn and increase UK wages by £800m by 2035 compared to not having a deal.”

1 Like

I’m always sceptical when the word ‘ could’ is used ,indicating something that might or might not happen .

Agreed, that’s why I didn’t take any notice of any of the forecasts leading up to the referendum.

You’d need a crystal ball to see what’s really going to happen either way.

1 Like

Mr Szijjártó claimed Brussels has a different viiew of democracy.

"We [in Hungary] believe that democracy means you act in accordance to the will of the people.

"People express their will through elections.

"But in Brussels when they say democracy, they only consider a political system democracy when it is being governed by the extremist liberals.

“If it is not the extremist liberals who govern the country then the country is proclaimed as not a democracy.”

He said that the liberals in Europe want to “create a United State sof Europe” which removes sovereign control of a country and its traditions and heritage

Mr Szijjártó added: “Forcing us to forget where we came from, who we are is too much.”

He admitted he regretted the UK’s departure because “it was in the sovereignist camp” against fedeeralists in Brussels.