The voice of the people for which there is no accounting, there is an alternative and we all know want that is.
I’m sorry (not sorry) but if the voice of the people voted for something I consider immoral, wicked, cruel or wrong ( not just Brexit) then I’m never going to go along with it in the name of democracy
The alternative to democracy may well be dictatorship and tyranny.
But if you are one of a minority whose rights are abused by the tyranny of the majority, then does it makes much difference which tyrants are dictating to you? I’m not talking Brexit here, which is a mild example, but in general?
And if we think something is wrong, democratically decided or not, then I think we have a responsibility to try to stop it or put it right
And the minority is still entitled to have their voice heard, their human rights and needs considered and respected and their opinions taken into account
In the case of Brexit it was such a tiny majority that a dictatorship by them, harming those who would have preferred to Remain, is doubly offensive
Hitler was voted in democratically.
Pure democracy is unworkable because uninformed people vote and can be influenced by those who are pursuing self interest.
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There were two non-democratic aspects to the Brexit vote. The first is your point about uninformed and possibly influenced people not fully grasping the implications of their vote, whichever way it was. This is why most referendums place a hurdle higher than 50%, usually 55%, to make it clearer that a true majority want the result they voted for and to prevent unresolved debate afterwards.
The second aspect is the vote was unbalanced. On one hand it was remain in the EU, as it is, as we know it, specifically how it works today. (Of course, what else could the remain vote be?) The leave option was utterly undefined. Not a single person could have known the nature and extent of the leave and the future EU relations. That allows people to imagine their own version - there were by definition of this multiple versions that lent more likelihood of support to leave.
So I very much dispute this frequent but false claim about democracy being done.
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Funnily enough, that was how we went in, in the first place.
We thought it was one thing, and it was morphed into something much different.
And there we were trapped!
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Europe was our finest hour.
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Well, we did co-colonise!
We were up there in the top 3, laying down the law on bananas & cucumbers.
Pure democracy works if done in an intelligent and responsible way.
Why is it no other country would dream of holding a referendum about leaving the E.U?
Simple… because that is utterly irresponsible and dishonest…
Not to leave… but to put such an important decision (which could leave generations in austerity and chaos while being denied work opportunities and education abroad), within the hands of every single citizen many of who had no clue at all, not being expert on the serious fields involved.
The democratic way is to elect democratically politicians and experts in economics, laws etc…like all democratic countries do and leave it to them to vote or decide at the senate or other instances, about those decisions that can have a huge impact on the population…
Anything else is dishonest, disloyal and totally irresponsible imo.
Were the numerous fishermen and lambs farmers happy to see their fish and lambs pile up and rot while leading them to bankruptcy? No of course not!
Would they have voted Brexit, had they known the consequences of their vote?
I do not think so…
I definitely would never blame anyone for voting Brexit as I have no doubt that brexiters and remainers alike , did what they thought would be the best for their country and grand children.
I blame D. Cameron 100% for giving this opportunity to vote to every single Dick and Harry, whereas state decisions, as important as these ones, should be taken only by our democratically elected and trusted senators and MPs, who are familiar with all the issues involved and the potential consequences good and bad for the nation.
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That is what happens when politicians make assumptions. The chaos we are now in shows how inept and desperate he was to save face after promising referendum in election manifesto.
Major referendums have been rare in the UK, and have only been held on major constitutional issues. Historically, referendums within the United Kingdom were opposed on the supposition that they violate the principle of parliamentary sovereignty.
Parliamentary sovereignty was violated being in the EU and continues, because then and now they are struggling with the detail.
The voting was simple Yes or NO. The Conservatives or any other party cannot admit the haven’t a clue.
Sorry, no mistake here, no excuses either.
That is an absolutely devastating report. Are the figures for those how have changed their mind accurate?
I also followed the links to read this article in the Financial Times which started:
The UK economy is set to be the worst performer in the G20 bar Russia over the next two years, the OECD said on Tuesday, underlining the lasting impact of high energy prices on Europe as a whole.
The OECD said in its latest economic forecasts that UK gross domestic product would fall 0.4 per cent in 2023 and rise a mere 0.2 per cent in 2024. That would be a longer and deeper downturn even than the forecast for Germany, whose manufacturing-intensive economy is particularly vulnerable to high energy prices.
https://12ft.io/proxy?&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2Fd6b84faf-f556-4fdd-ac27-65c2d514aa2f
The answer is simple, we just need to quantitative ease all these percentages!!!
There was an even better article today with an introductory paragraph that sums up the impact of Brexit across the EU:
“Take a look at [the Europe-wide survey], published yesterday , which showed that support for leaving the EU has tanked everywhere since 2016. In every EU member state where data was available, from Finland to the Netherlands, Portugal to Hungary, pro-leave sentiment has fallen through the floor. Even Europe’s most hardcore anti-EU parties have abandoned the goal of actually leaving the EU – no more talk of Frexit or Italexit – aiming instead merely to reform the union from within.”
The UK has surely led the way and led by example - and in doing so we have educated other countries in what not to do.
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See, we are still world leaders!!!
Oh yeah of course we are.
I’m just Glad all over.
Farmers in the EU are now protesting as they see the CAP is one lousy deal.
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