First, having done a quick check the numbers of 425,000 doctors & nurses is about right but the total staff number is 1.2m. So the non-doctor / non-nurse staff is closer to 775,000.
I’ve struggled to determine the make up of this 775,000 but the data shows about 40,000 management staff.
I’d guess we’d need to look to technical staff (there are lot of machines that need specialist operators), lab staff (lots of testing done), specialist clinical staff like physiotherapists, porters, cleaners, kitchen staff, etc. To me these are all essential staff. I think the casual criticism that there are hundreds of thousands of unnecessary staff is much too simplistic and most likely plain wrong.
As I understood it, these jobs were the first to be privatised by the Evil Tony Bliar himself.
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Thank you Doctor…and the budget?
@Percy_Vere , Yeah, and dont forget most specialists are self employed too,
as are most technicians etc, and so shouldnt be included in the working
staff figures just to justify the excess non- productive staff ?which imo
should include all the private advisors and business consultants and other
hangers on ??
You mean worse than this?
Thu 14 Apr 2022 11.42 BST
The number of people in England waiting to start routine hospital treatment has risen to the highest level since records began 15 years ago, with A&E and ambulance waits also soaring amid high Covid rates, staff shortages and increased demand.
NHS data shows 6.2 million people are waiting to start treatment, the highest number since records began in August 2007.
Of these, 23,281 have been waiting more than two years. NHS England said this was down from 23,778 at the end of January, but it is about nine times the 2,608 people who had been waiting this long in April 2021.
Ministers have promised to eliminate all waits of more than two years by July. But doctors, NHS leaders and health experts say the target looks increasingly unachievable. On Wednesday the Guardian revealed that operations were being cancelled across England as Covid causes major disruption in the NHS.
@Vlad , Well l suppose one way of reducing the numbers would be to
lose the paperwork ??
I cant see any other option !!
I am sorry for anyone who is seriously ill today .
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It’s been done before I suspect. or…make the waiting lists longer, so that we all die off?
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Yes indeed, despite the numbers and despite the enormous budget it is the end user who suffers.
The NHS has one job, that is all, demanding more money and staff to do that job hasn’t worked in the past, so the future looks bleak for those needing help.
I quoted elsewhere about the same topic - the NHS started off in whenever as a grand idea for UK - to provide care for all free but at the same hidden costing - it was never really free - however they got the sums wrong then and they’ve been getting them wrong ever since and hoodwinking the end user - it was always gonna cost more than estimated and it has. Don’t pretend - tell the end user the real cost - tweek out the hangers on and it just may work?
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My hunch is that a large chunk of that is spent on pension.
Of course it’s not free. That’s why people should demand better care. The reason it costs more than ever is because they pay for groundbreaking cancer treatments, new technology e.g. keyhole surgery, MRIs, CT scans, heart transplants, liver transplants, neuro and brain surgery etc were not available in 1948. It’s chronic conditions that are a drain. People could change that by having healthier lifestyles during their lives and avoid diabetes, COPD, liver disease, morbid obesity through lifestyle choices etc If we have a more supportive society people may not fall into mental health crises which are avoidable if people have more support and nurturing from their community. Our individualist compartmentalised society is not the most nurturing. You go somewhere like italy or greece where people are healthier, well they have family networks, community networks more active lifestyles socialising etc. When people get sick their neighbours, friends, family all help. They look out for each other. We have lost that here. Not all but many people are keen to be insulated from the problems & lives of others.
I’m not sure whether we are quite there on parity with other countries as % of GDP or whatever the international measure is. Blair hiked the NHS budget up exponentially after Thatcher ran it into the ground. When dad was dying the hospital struggled to find enough bedpans for patients because of thatchers cuts. There is no comparison between the health service in the 90s to what we have now. It was dragged out of the pits by Blair. Say what you like about him but he revolutionised the NHS. Since Cameron tories have been trying their darndest to demonise and destroy it. Hence some of the opinions here fed by media spin against drs, GPs nurses, the whole caboodle.
I hear stories - true ? - I am sure they are of the elderly in UK living isolated lives in isolated places and deteriorating and dying alone - “we” seem to have become a less caring society - I remember when family mattered and stepped in to help each other - we all seem so disconnected now? I was doing some research a week ago and came across a uni paper submitted about the concerns of elderly care in one of the ME countries and could not believe my eyes. The support system mainly provided by dutiful daughters was falling down as they sort their own careers and jobs to fuell the family coffers. The same I noticed in HK within the last few decades? - fast speed lives fuelled by increased consumerism destroys the core of life - the family. Can the NHS replace such values and social norms or not - I would say NOT!
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Annie … I think you need to give your head a wobble!
Blair ruined the NHS. He wasted billions on useless computer systems, he sold off hospitals he signed off over 100 PFI contracts and Labour brought in the idea of paying to park at hospitals.
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You think that this list is what has ruined the NHS? These are reasons for ambulances being backed up, staff recruitment becoming impossible, GPs, hospital consultants, nurses retiring or leaving the profession?
My experience and my family’s experience of the NHS between when dad was dying during the final John Major Govt and that when Blair injected triple funding into the system is vastly different. I doubt many here would be alive with the shambles left by Thatcher. Hospitals were starved of funding. GPs would do anything to stop you having a hospital appointment. You can say a lot of things about Blair but he didn’t ruin the NHS.
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No it’s just a having to deal with the fallout of an uncaring society. It’s like the Ukrainian refugee crisis. Other countries have a population that has taken strangers into their homes, fed them, given them shelter and emotional support. We were astonished and some have tried to do the same here but it was a seismic paradigm shift in an attitude that has built up over the last fifty years. During WWII things were so different here.
Annie how can people take in people in their homes when most of the country live in very small places themselves some have adult children living with them or are of generation rent themselves .
Do you have room to house other people ?
Muddy the people living in countries that have taken refugees into homes have little money and often live in small flats too. I do have room yes. In other countries the refugees aren’t sitting around doing nothing - they go out to work as soon as they are settled. Many have moved on, for example gone back to Ukraine to safe places. We have a very cumbersome system here. We have asylum seekers sitting around being told they cannot work when we have a labour shortage. it’s nuts.
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