Paying for the NHS

It’s been done before I suspect. :grinning: or…make the waiting lists longer, so that we all die off?

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Yes indeed, despite the numbers and despite the enormous budget it is the end user who suffers.
The NHS has one job, that is all, demanding more money and staff to do that job hasn’t worked in the past, so the future looks bleak for those needing help.

I quoted elsewhere about the same topic - the NHS started off in whenever as a grand idea for UK - to provide care for all free but at the same hidden costing - it was never really free - however they got the sums wrong then and they’ve been getting them wrong ever since and hoodwinking the end user - it was always gonna cost more than estimated and it has. Don’t pretend - tell the end user the real cost - tweek out the hangers on and it just may work?

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My hunch is that a large chunk of that is spent on pension.

Of course it’s not free. That’s why people should demand better care. The reason it costs more than ever is because they pay for groundbreaking cancer treatments, new technology e.g. keyhole surgery, MRIs, CT scans, heart transplants, liver transplants, neuro and brain surgery etc were not available in 1948. It’s chronic conditions that are a drain. People could change that by having healthier lifestyles during their lives and avoid diabetes, COPD, liver disease, morbid obesity through lifestyle choices etc If we have a more supportive society people may not fall into mental health crises which are avoidable if people have more support and nurturing from their community. Our individualist compartmentalised society is not the most nurturing. You go somewhere like italy or greece where people are healthier, well they have family networks, community networks more active lifestyles socialising etc. When people get sick their neighbours, friends, family all help. They look out for each other. We have lost that here. Not all but many people are keen to be insulated from the problems & lives of others.

I’m not sure whether we are quite there on parity with other countries as % of GDP or whatever the international measure is. Blair hiked the NHS budget up exponentially after Thatcher ran it into the ground. When dad was dying the hospital struggled to find enough bedpans for patients because of thatchers cuts. There is no comparison between the health service in the 90s to what we have now. It was dragged out of the pits by Blair. Say what you like about him but he revolutionised the NHS. Since Cameron tories have been trying their darndest to demonise and destroy it. Hence some of the opinions here fed by media spin against drs, GPs nurses, the whole caboodle.

I hear stories - true ? - I am sure they are of the elderly in UK living isolated lives in isolated places and deteriorating and dying alone - “we” seem to have become a less caring society - I remember when family mattered and stepped in to help each other - we all seem so disconnected now? I was doing some research a week ago and came across a uni paper submitted about the concerns of elderly care in one of the ME countries and could not believe my eyes. The support system mainly provided by dutiful daughters was falling down as they sort their own careers and jobs to fuell the family coffers. The same I noticed in HK within the last few decades? - fast speed lives fuelled by increased consumerism destroys the core of life - the family. Can the NHS replace such values and social norms or not - I would say NOT!


Annie … I think you need to give your head a wobble!

Blair ruined the NHS. He wasted billions on useless computer systems, he sold off hospitals he signed off over 100 PFI contracts and Labour brought in the idea of paying to park at hospitals.

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You think that this list is what has ruined the NHS? These are reasons for ambulances being backed up, staff recruitment becoming impossible, GPs, hospital consultants, nurses retiring or leaving the profession?

My experience and my family’s experience of the NHS between when dad was dying during the final John Major Govt and that when Blair injected triple funding into the system is vastly different. I doubt many here would be alive with the shambles left by Thatcher. Hospitals were starved of funding. GPs would do anything to stop you having a hospital appointment. You can say a lot of things about Blair but he didn’t ruin the NHS.

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No it’s just a having to deal with the fallout of an uncaring society. It’s like the Ukrainian refugee crisis. Other countries have a population that has taken strangers into their homes, fed them, given them shelter and emotional support. We were astonished and some have tried to do the same here but it was a seismic paradigm shift in an attitude that has built up over the last fifty years. During WWII things were so different here.

Annie how can people take in people in their homes when most of the country live in very small places themselves some have adult children living with them or are of generation rent themselves .
Do you have room to house other people ?

Muddy the people living in countries that have taken refugees into homes have little money and often live in small flats too. I do have room yes. In other countries the refugees aren’t sitting around doing nothing - they go out to work as soon as they are settled. Many have moved on, for example gone back to Ukraine to safe places. We have a very cumbersome system here. We have asylum seekers sitting around being told they cannot work when we have a labour shortage. it’s nuts.

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Annie what other countries are you referring too ?I spend a lot of time in Spain and to be honest I have not seen people taking Ukrainian people into their homes .This is not to say they don’t but I have not seen it . Most Spanish people live in tiny flats with little rooms for themselves .
So have you applied to take in a family or are you still waiting for an applicant to be approved ?If you have room say an annex it’s ok but generally it’s not a good idea having strangers in close quarters .
It doesn’t necessarily mean that people are uncaring .
If you mean asylum seekers ie the illegal immigrants coming in by boat if they are allowed to work let’s say crop picking they won’t like this a lot come from the ME and they consider this work demeaning soo are likely to abscond and disappear into the black economy we really don’t want that to happen .If you mean work as in care homes it’s a poor end to life if people are cared for by people who don t even speak their language .

Muddy I just gave that as an example of the culture change in the UK & don’t want to go too far off topic. In Spain I know from friends that far more people look after elderly family. Perhaps that’s changing but it’s certainly going the wrong way if it is. Didn’t they find a woman here who had been dead for two years in her flat/house recently?

Sorry I’ve gone off topic

IMO I don’t think taking refugees into your home is the way to go.
Not right for the host or the refugee.
There’s been many horror stories here in the UK on both sides…hosts and refugees.
Hosts unable to cope and turfing refugees out at a moments notice.
checks not carried out on hosts or accommodation
Hosts finding they’ve got undesirables not all refugees are pleasant people
and Vice a versa.
I don’t know what the answer is but it’s definitely not asking the public to take strangers into their homes.

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Back on topic
Unless you’re an emergency or willing to grow old waiting for a medical procedure, you have to pay.
Yes I’d be willing to pay the NHS if it meant timely treatment.

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Some Spanish do others don’t there are plenty of care homes in Spain too .
i think people found dead after a long time is not new . Some people live alone don’t have friends or relatives at some point they are going to die .

@Muddy, Aint we all ??

Well I intend to live long in order to become a pain in thearse to my daughter and grandkids, that will teach to keep me awake at nights when they were babies, :grinning:


the poms have always paid for the NHS - but in todays era 1. you still have bad govts who can’t run it well 2. technologies have change and got more expensive and probably haven’t been factored in and 3. the poms are always lookin for a cheap deal! nb: and there ain’t none anymore??