I can’t find the thread where we discussed the world’s lack of food and overpopulation so here is another.
I mentioned that overpopulation will not be an issue when the whole world is developed and here is further proof …
Germany passes Japan to have world’s lowest birth rate
Germany has dropped below Japan to have not just the lowest birth rate across Europe but also globally, according to the report by Germany-based analysts.
Its authors warned of the effects of a shrinking working-age population.
You will see that once a country is at a particular stage in it’s social development the birth rate falls dramatically, even alarmingly and only the underdeveloped countries continue to have high birth rates.
If we were to stop eating meat and only produced grains we could quite comfortably feed the whole wide world.
The future does not look as bad as many think, well with regard to the population and food anyway .
We do need to stop people having so many children, I am not against everyone becoming vegetarian but I would like to think it happens gradually and when people want to do it rather than they be forced. I am not sure grain should be the base of our foods either, far too many people cannot digest it and it causes them horrible problems.
Also I think cheese and eggs are very necessary for a protein source so we would still need animals for that.
I think leaving vegetarianism aside it should be possible to bring down the population with education and making it easier for people to access good contraception, and making it more accepted that couples can have a life without children. At the moment the pressure is on as soon as people marry with people asking when they will have kids, I know a few couples who have no intention of having children who are still feeling that pressure from parents and family.
There are all sorts of foods that provide protein so to provide a protein that everyone can eat shouldn’t be a problem. You have nuts, beans, pulses etc that are able to be produced in abundance and have lots of proteins in them.
It has been found too that eating animal based protein is very bad for you.
As I have mentioned once a country is developed the birth rate falls dramatically so there isn’t really a need to do anything unless, of course, it ‘pays’ to have lots of children, such as where the benefit system is all to hell.
I am not sure the benefit system is the problem what is a problem is lack of education and organised religions telling people they must reproduce also as I said tradition. We need to address all of those things IMO.
I’m seeing the opposite in some ways - ie my daughter & DIL’s leaving having kids til their mid 30’s then having terrible probs with the whole thing - miscarriages tho not that unusual can then set you back years which you hadn’t taken into account when leaving it so late. My DIL needed IVF, my daughter had 3 miscarriages then her 1st baby had big probs - she is 4 now and still they are dealing with the little girl’s issues, + she has a 2y/o. She always wanted 3 but she is nearly 40 & its probably not feasible now. She says she wishes she’d started earlier but girls are so discouraged from having kids in their 20’s now. Youngest son gets married this week, his girl is also early 30’s … they’re putting kids off for a few years ! seems they are not learning what what’s been happening …
I’m not opposed to vegetarianism, but neither would I discourage anyone from eating meat. Leaving aside the problems of needing more suitable land to grow crops, not eating meat would result in most farm animals becoming virtually extinct (except for a few in zoos - and there are people who would have them banned).
Not only food, what about all the other resources - water, energy, waste disposal, transport, housing, work etc etc…
MJK, I will agree with you on the point of ‘developed countries’ and many places may need help in improving healthare, reducing child mortality etc before population control will be effective.
That is so true, it’s the same with my children, in their 30’s now and only starting to think about having children.
If there are any problems as you say time can run out quickly.
MKJ is right about developed countries and birth rates, I wonder how long it will take for the rest of the world to catch up.
Also some underdeveloped countries are huge with huge populations already so a lot of people will be born before the issue is resolved.
This is where I think people have got the wrong end of the stick. Masses of land is put aside for the cultivation of cattle feed - crops! It makes no sense at all to grow crops to feed cattle to obtain protein whereby we could just grow crops: end of! By growing crops only we would be able to grow far more crops / protein than we need to feed everyone. Imagine how much one single cow or bull needs to eat in a year of grain and the like? Year in and year out.
There is no need to eat animal protein. It is just a misguided notion we need to eat such stuff to remain healthy. If a steak was made out of plant protein yet looked the same and tasted the same then no-one would have cause to complain; therefore we are only eating such stuff to satisfy an ingrained psychological disposition, one of which we could easily alter. We need to retrain our brains: not mine I might hasten to add as I can easily adjust either way.
Once a country is ‘developed’ not only are people wealthy financially but also considered ‘wealthy’ in knowledge. They are then able to fight back against indoctrination and social pressures; in other words they are able to make up their own minds about lots of things including whether or not to have children at all: they no longer accept anything at face value be it even advice from their parents, which is the key to stifling the birth rate. This newly adopted attitude can be taken too far though and the birth rate falls off completely, especially when you consider the ‘drive’ for most economies is based on capitalism which is ruthless by nature, but mainly because people become far more responsible.
As for animals dieing off entirely that ain’t going to happen overnight. There are probably billions of cattle on the planet at this moment in time.
We would lose a lot more than protein if we said goodbye to farm animals, they give us a lot of things really including the green and pleasant landscape our country enjoys. Some breeds are the only things can exist in some areas like mountain sides etc, you can’t grow crops on mountains or salt flats etc but they can be used for sheep and goats etc.
To be honest I don’t think it matters what we eat, the Earth has it’s own defences against being overpopulated with any species including us. I think of the Earth as one enormous natural garden with all kinds of everything growing in it, we grow in it, flourish and die in it, then the Earth gobbles us up and we grow again. If the garden gets out of control and one species starts becoming dominant by taking over the whole garden they are weeded down to manageable size, all done the way Earth has being doing it since the beginning, by disease, wars and natural disasters, so I wouldn’t worry about over population. I remember reading an article back in the 1960’s saying the Rats would take over the World at the rate they were increasing then, frightening stuff, but I think now there are the same amount of Rats per human as there was at the time of Christ.
The best thing to do is eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you could be more grub for Mother Earth.
I’m with MKJ on this topic. I think that we could cut meat production by half and make much better use of resources.
The other thing we need to do and we can all do it is reduce food waste, in the UK a third of all food is wasted.
That is the same as throwing a third of your food shopping in the bin as soon as you buy it.
This seems partly a thread about vegetarianism, so a few comments about that.
In a developed society like ours, there can be choice not to eat meat or its products but generally, I don’t think humans will change from being omnivores. Throughout evolution, we had to nourish ourselves with whatever food presented itself and that was found suitable. Taking food where it can be found has always had to be the way. We’re designed to do that and is part of what we are. I mean, try telling an Eskimo not eat fish or seal meat.
It is sad that animals die in order to feed us and my only rule is not to waste meat. An animal died so I could live and it seems a dreadful waste of life if any of it ends up in the bin.
I realise health problems can be put down to eating excessive quantities of meat. Maybe that’s true and a balanced diet of meat, vegetables and fruit seems most sensible. However, it also seems that people can become ill and/or die young no matter what they eat. No sort of diet leads to living forever as far as I know.
I have always eaten a ‘balanced diet’ and taken plenty of exercise. I’ve reached 70 doing that. I may or may not be alive this time next year. If not, I don’t think my death could be put down to eating meat.
If we were to stop eating meat and only produced grains we could quite comfortably feed the whole wide world.
I eat very little meat and wouldn’t miss it if I never ate meat again but I would miss dairy products. We need animals to keep the land fertile in order to grow vegetable crops.
I don’t think the answer to overpopulation is in what we eat.the answer is in birth control .
A man who had escaped in one of the refugee boats (I think he came from Libya ) was being interviewed on the radio yesterday, he alone had left behind 15 children.
This kind of over production of human is just unjustifiable when they can’t be supported and have little chance of a happy fulfilled life even if they do manage to get enough food to eat. Many will only know a life of hardship.
I do appreciate that some might not have seen or heard of this before but it is not new.
You quote: -
[FONT=“Courier New”]Germany has dropped below Japan to have not just the lowest birth rate across Europe but also globally, according to the report by Germany-based analysts.
Its authors warned of the effects of a shrinking working-age population.[/FONT]
In 1968 Paul and Anne Ehrlich wrote a book called The Population Bomb.
It warned of the strong possibility of mass starvation of humans due to overpopulation, as well as other major societal upheavals.
It became a best-seller - I read it back in 1970.
It was also widely criticised for being alarmist and later, inaccurate in its predictions, much like so much research that often tends to be more than a little optimistic.
The world’s government have known about this problem since the 1950s yet very little has actually been done to date and some are actually saying that we are feeling the effects of this now. stevmk2
Can’t say I agree with that. The answer is in education. Once a person is sufficiently educated they no longer follow doctrines blindly without questioning their validity.
It is very apparent religion has no place in this world now (a doctrine or where people are indoctrinated). You only have to see the replies on this forum once religion rears it’s garbled head: the threads go to nonsensical pot. I throw religion in to this argument as I equate such beliefs as being educationally ignorant and also with some religions they do not practice birth control.
Once a person is educated to a certain degree they make their own mind up on anything and everything to do with them. This spills over to childbirth as they realise they can’t afford them - can’t feed them - can’t care for them in the manner they should be. On top of that women form their own careers and many decide not to have any children at all or only 1 or 2. It is all about education and breaking free from the shackles of ignorance.
That’s all very well in theory Mark but not in practice . While I agree with you about religion (though it is a matter of personal choice if people wish to have a belief or not) that is not the whole picture .
In countries where there are high mortality rates it is customary to have a large number of children to provide for their elders in case some do not survive.
It would take many generations to dispel old religions and beliefs and you could never force people to do it.
…Mark a number of countries do not have land capable of food production and for some people their whole existence is based on tending a few animals.
What are you going to do, give these people a bag of grain to eat and take away the self respect and dignity which comes from providing for themselves.
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. Being sober has it’s uses.