@swimfeeders , Where did we get free degree’s Swimmy ??
If we didn’t have the money, we never got to uni where l came from ?
Only difference now is kids are born with access to credit at birth! which we
never had , but it is supposedly payed back eventually by the student ??
Every body,even now, has access to free state education up to a certain level !
The reason for needing a degree for more and more jobs is simply to justify
the university system ??
Donkeyman ! 
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Yep, I missed it the first time but read it after my post and decided to leave my post as a support of yours which is why I hit the like button.
There’s no point any one going on about the youth of today not getting proper jobs (whatever they are) if there arent any proper jobs to get.
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I’m the odd one out on this 
Don’t you want better for the next generation than we had?
I’ve been through poverty and it would gladden my heart if I thought no young mum in our country had to go through it now.
I love seeing well fed and healthy families having days out and treats and enjoying themselves.
I certainly don’t resent them having better than I had, that sounds a bit bitter and jealous to me
I hope nobody ever has to “make do” or go without like I did. There’s no virtue in it, just harsh grind
But not everyone is that fortunate, even today. There are still people working long hours for poor wages having to choose between food and fuel and relying on food banks
And it’s going to get worse and I think that’s a disgrace in a wealthy country like ours 
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That’s true Donks. Either you found the money, your employer paid your way through, or you didn’t go.
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But it’s going to get worse Maree for exactly the reasons you stated. If there are not enough people working and paying tax and supporting local business because they are all in further education, we are taking more out of the national pot than we are putting in. As our generation retire and expire, our hands on skills will be lost. I will take a lifetime of practical mechanical engineering skills with me when my time is up, and there is nobody following on.
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I don’t think education is just about getting a job, it’s about creating an educated, enlightened population and a liberal, intelligent society
Working class people never used to get a shot at University or social mobility, think Thomas Hardy and Jude the Obscure and I’m well proud we’ve changed that.
It was so wrong when working class kids were just trained up as fodder for working class jobs
Of course skills like yours shouldn’t be lost, you’re vital, but pass them on as part of further education for all, methinks
And really, it’s us oldies who are taking out more than we’re putting in.
The NHS, National Insurance and Pension systems weren’t designed for us living so much longer and having so many more years of not paying in and costing
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Further Education is a luxury Maree, for those that can afford it, and totally unnecessary if not to provide the skills to maintain a family and all that goes with that. Obviously, reading, writing and a grasp of mathematics are essential to function in the world, but all the rest can be considered a hobby. But we are in a situation where jobs are created around the latest fashions, media studies, advertising and other waste of space occupations, instead of the other way round.
I wouldn’t call people who are plumbers, electricians, joiners, bricklayers, mechanical engineers or farmers ‘Fodder for working class jobs’ but in all of these cases, hands on experience is worth ten times the value of University training, and day release to college would satisfy the theoretical side of any job.
At least us oldies did put in our dues and demands over the years and can now reap the rewards, but minimum wage, education fees and a nanny state is taking far more out of the national purse than us oldies ever will. And each year as Covid and other ailments cut out all the dead wood, there will be nobody to take our place, but it might be cheaper to run the country.
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OGF, you and I both noted that Thatcher and beyond moved the country away from manufacturing industries and indeed replaced them with financial and service sector industries as a way of generating income. So it’s somewhat obvious that people ought to study that kind of thing for degrees. I think you’re being harsh and rude in the way you refer to them, and IMHO incorrect in your appraisal of their worth.
Ah well, we’ll have to disagree then, because I don’t think further education should be a luxury, educated people make for a better society
Plus life isn’t just about earning a living. Everyone should get the chance to raise their eyes from the toil. Educate people just for the joy of being educated
Max respect to plumbers, electricians, joiners, bricklayers, mechanical engineers and farmers but those shouldn’t be the only jobs available to working class kids and your job isn’t all you are
I hate the trend to diss intellectuals, graduates and professionals, “ no common sense, blah, blah” etc
And the hankering to shove working class kids into non intellectual careers and apprenticeships. Reminds me of Brave New World
Us oldies may have paid our dues, but young people are more than paying their dues now to support us. Too many oldies forget that when they diss them
Our pension and healthcare comes out of their taxes, and a whopping chunk too, because we’re living longer.
It’s grinding hard for young people on low incomes it’s plus they’re paying out taxes to support some oldies who are better off than they are.
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I agree entirely with you. More and more half-arsed, silly, stupid, Mickey Mouse degrees like Media Studies, Film Studies and the like were pushed to those who had probably little ability in any other subject but the Universities saw a cracking way of filling their coffers with coin. Give me degree courses that require more than a few cribbed from the internet essays to be awarded a 1st or 2:1. - And that is exactly what I told my tenant who was a lecturer in film studies at Worcester University. (He didn’t speak to me for ages afterwards - not that I cared 
)
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In a previous life my work involved having higher education students coming to us for work placements and experience. OMG most of them were hopeless. Poor time keeping, no common sense, tired out by mid afternoon and just needing SO much supervision.
I can honestly say that we took school leavers from the local high school and they proved much more able to think for themselves and get on with people and show initiative.
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I have a niece who went to Uni to do Film And American Studies (whatever that is). She got a “good” degree but has only ever worked in shops and is currently working for a charity listing things on Ebay! 
. How useful was her degree? 
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Realistically, how useful is any degree? Was out for lunch with some friends earlier, two of which were engineers. Both of them said their engineering degrees were of no use in their careers in engineering!
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I love this @Maree and agree wholeheartedly. “Give the kids a break”, further education is a whole lot more than the academics.
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It’s an interesting thing to observe the difference between British and Australian society.
In Australia the tradie, whether he is a metalworker, plumber, carpenter or electrician is king. In every work place they are cock of the walk. No “Tradesman’s Entrance” in Australia. Being a tradesman is very respected and very well paid.
As for universities the debt you occur getting a science or engineering degree is far less than the debt incurred getting a degree in the arts or social sciences, whether this will have an effect on people’s choices is not clear yet but it is an attempt by the government to guide people toward what they consider more “useful” degrees.
Personally I think where there are shortages they should go back to the “bond” system. For example teachers received free training in return for which they were sent to remote or country schools for a period of time (I think it was four years) before they were allowed to apply for any teaching job.
Talking of Budgets, only a couple more days before Scottie’s election pork barrel is released on the population.
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My late MIL was German and she used to talk about how it wasn’t that important over there if kids didn’t go to Uni as they could have good careers in trades like you mention and were thought very highly of. She said even shop assistants were much better trained and became experts in what they were selling. She cited the case of a young girl she knew who went to work in a very nice shoe shop and was taught all about every grade of leather, fitting, care of good shoes which she would pass on the customers rather than just handing over a pair of shoes. She knew her stuff!
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A waste of 3 years and a massive student loan I’ll bet. Like so many of our grandchildren, they’ll be saddled with extensive debts until they retire because no company wants to pay the real rate for the better jobs available these days.
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We must not forget we were the lucky generation .
After the war jobs were plenty, education free . If you were clever enough to go to university you got a grant to live . We have witnessed the biggest appreciation of houses ever in this country
Before the war people were poor they will be again . Being self congratulatory at the expense of young people is wrong just because we had it good. Not forgetting that todays young people are the children of children we raised .
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I think you are quite right and I don’t think that the average person in the UK will ever be that well off again. Despite the lies told by pollies (“You’ve never had it so good”), houses were affordable, you could live on one wage and society was not broken.
A badly timed Brexit combined with the pandemic have seen the end of that wealth for probably decades to come. I feel very sad about the future for my nieces and nephews living there
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You’re not comparing like with like and wish people would stop doing it. They are both completely different times with completely different challenges.
I’ve still got a letter from my first job at 17 which said, congratulations your wages will be raising to £999 pa. I got my first house at 21 and it cost £35,000. All my furniture etc was second hand from relatives. Prior to this my birthday presents were bottom drawer presents, so I had all the kitchen utensils, etc. Could you imagine giving an 18 year old today a saucepan for her birthday and her being grateful for it.
I lived in Harrow and had to travel to Hammersmith for my job so nearly all my wages was taken up with train fares. Interest rates would have been about 17%. Today they are .75%.
There was no minimum wage so employers could pay you what they wanted to. Today the minimum wage is £9.50. And as from July you don’t have to pay any tax or NI until you earn £12,500. We had no child tax credits and can tell you that these are worth another wage. We didn’t have free child care, but they do now.
At the moment employers are crying out for employees.
Completely different times so not comparing like with like.
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