Behave Spitty … they get them free either because
I’m just teasing!
Right … now I am off. 
Seriously, everyone have a good day, wherever you are.
We used to have English votes for English Laws (EVEL) and English and Welsh Votes for English and Welsh Laws, for all legislation which covered matters which were devolved to the Scottish Parliament.
It seems simple enough to me - if the Parliamentary Vote involves a matter which is dealt with by a devolved Parliament then any MPs from the country of that devolved Parliament just doesn’t get a vote for that Bill or that part of the Bill which doesn’t affect their country.
EVEL was introduced to Westminster in 2015, after the Scottish Referendum, to address the “West Lothian Question” and it operated until the start of the Covid pandemic - it was in operation until early 2020, then it was suspended to simplify voting procedures during the Covid pandemic (even though the devolved Parliaments made their own rules for Covid)
I think the Government have since taken the opportunity of it being paused for a few years to just abolish it altogether - possibly because they thought they had killed off the muttering caused by the Scottish Independence debate - thus we are now left with the same situation - no permanent solution to the West Lothian Question.
I’d support the return of EVEL - it would be cheaper than having another separate devolved Parliament - if other devolved Parliaments within U.K. have MPs chosen by their own country’s constituents deciding devolved matters which only affect their country’s residents, it’s only fair that matters affecting only England are decided by the MPs selected by voters from the English constituencies.
It’s worth remembering why there was complaints and why EVEL was introduced in the first place - During the 2000s a number of pieces of legislation which affected only or mainly England were passed by the UK Parliament, although the votes cast by MPs were such that the legislation would not have been passed if only the votes cast by MPs representing English constituencies had been counted.
Hi. For me it is important that you and others are aware that what you wrote can cause (inadvertent) offense. Essentially, in your questions about Scotland’s capabilities, you were saying that this one country is so much more inadequate than other similar countries. I know you did not mean that. But that is still the essence of the questions (can Scotland? How can Scotland? Will Scotland?). What you did not do is ask yourself - how does this one country compare to other similar countries? What you (I suspect, inadvertently) does is think " I need to compare Scotland to the entire UK". That’s not really the right comparison.
So do not accuse me of being pricky. Think harder about the context of what you wrote.
Next time, write “how can Denmark exist?” And then reflect and then delete.
Thank you for the lecture. I’m genuinely sorry you were offended, quite strongly by the sounds of it. You’ve made it quite plain to me you are offended, so be content in the knowledge that you have put me right about it.
I can’t recall saying that Scotland was ‘inadequate’ in any way. That is the interpretation you choose to put on my words. It must make decent debate incredibly difficult for you to achieve.
And I reiterate … I’ve thought about it … and I still think you’re being incredibly sensitive and picky.
That’s your problem, not mine. But what I will do is cease discussing Scottish issues with you and suggest you think carefully before replying to anyone else who is willing to discuss Scotland with you as you might well find you become upset, angry and overly defensive with them too.
Now … having said that there is no need for us to chat on this thread any further, at least not at this disagreeable level.
Except perhaps to discuss the weather … the British are often accused of doing that to excess.
Is the weather nice in France?
Ok, I see that you are angered by my responses. And, truth be told, I did come down hard on your posts. This is because you typified a common mindset. Namely - little Scotland is dependent on England and can’t survive on its own. This, to me, was made clear by all the “how will Scotland…” questions and the Barnett formula opening. This view of Scotland lacks the breadth to look outside the UK to see what other countries do and how they fair.
But I agree, this dialogue is finished.
A more interesting dialogue would be along the lines of “fine, you want Scotland to be an Ireland or a Denmark. But it is far from that at the moment. How do you see the journey to these levels of prosperity? And should England help or hinder that progress?”
I’m happy to draw a line under it as we seem to rub each other the wrong way which makes debate a little cranky and pointless.
One observation about your own mindset though … odd, you seem confident ‘little Scotland’ can survive on it’s own independent of England’ and correct anyone you think is suggesting otherwise.
But apparently the UK is not capable of surving without the EU?
On another currently active thread you’re clearly anti-Brexit and scathing in your view of an UK independent of the EU.
Possibly it’s just the English you do not like … as you are, at heart, not English, nor Scottish, nor British but a Europhile.
You might well personally just prefer ‘another bigger club’ … hoping for larger benefits and grants that outweigh Scottish contributions but from a bigger master.
Taken from another thread …
But yet you favour Scottish Independence ?
I’m curious as to why someone who starts by stating they wish cease an exchange then ends their post with a question. Oh well. Seeing as you ask.
Actually, in the short term, I have doubts and concerns about how well Scotland would fair in the event of independence. Brexit takes Scotland out of the EU with a difficult and likely long journey to get back in. Westminster has no track record of welcoming Scottish independence and seems likely to put up trade obstacles. Much of Scotland’s assets (oil, whisky, etc.) are under non-Scottish ownership. It took Ireland about 50 years to move to prosperity. So whilst I support independence in principle it needs clearer route to short/medium term success. There’s an open response without any crankiness.
Again, you equate the Brexit exit from the EU to a possible Scottish exit from the UK. Please do not, they are not the same. Being part of a wider economic and trade bloc, who are your neighbours, makes sense. England is not a wider economic or trade bloc. And independence is not about gaining grants or subsidies.
If you want to discuss the merits of Brexit there is, as you noted, another thread on that topic.
Lastly I am very much Scottish. And much more European than British. Nor am I anti-English. I know some very nice English people who I’d count as my friends. I am against short-sighted decisions though (thanks for the quote, sums it all up nicely, doesn’t it?)
Thanks for the reply. I was curious and your explanation, which of course you had no need to supply, has confirmed my suspicions.
Relevant quotes …
Lastly I am very much Scottish. And much more European than British.
Being part of a wider economic and trade bloc, who are your neighbours, makes sense. England is not a wider economic or trade bloc.
I believe now that I previously summed up why you hold the views you do quite accurately. Which is possibly the root of why me and thee don’t exactly gel together.
My heart tells me I am English, British.
Whereas yours tells you, you are Scottish, European.
This is bound to colour any sentiment you hold about Scottish Independence, Brexit, and possible antipathy towards the English, and as a natural follow-on … an Independent Scotland who will likely quickly, sacrifice it’s independence by applying for EU membership.
As to the other thread I don’t discuss Brexit … it’s done with.
Whatever the fallout or complications it has created these are obstacles that need to be resolved so the UK (with or without Scotland) can move forward and propser as an independent governing entity … rather than be subject to old grievances from Remainers determined, still, to harp on with the old dirge … crass, dumb, insular, fearful, inward looking, harmful, negative act.
Who can forget immediately after the referendum the rather embarrassing spectacle of Nicola Sturgeon rushing around the halls at Brussels like someone desperate to find the Ladies loo, trying to apprehend any official , begging to retain Scottish EU membership.
Shame …as I quite liked her style as a politician. She had a refreshing honesty and directness about her, was quite a little firebrand in her own way and seemed genuinely concerned about the Scottish people, which is more than can be said of some other politicians, North and South of the Border…
It was nice chatting with you.
I know from past experience that Morty is a member of the ‘lastworditas’ gang…will I be proven wrong?..place Yer bets here folks 
I think that a little unkind May unless you’re just trying to bait me.
And I’m sure Strathmore might well want to reply, giving him the honour of ‘lastworditis’ … after a bit of grizzliness we’re doing okay now ta very much.
Psst … though I see cronyism isn’t dead. 
Don’t be daft Woman…bait You?..not My style Kiddo…I just thought I’d add bit of humour…sorry I bothered.!!.
Well it does liven the place up … that’s true.
As an aside Morty, how do we know who is a him and who is her lately, legitimate question?
In a Forum sense.
So she was actually doing her job as the Scottish leader? Hardly embarrassing to actually do what she was elected to do.
The embarrassing bit was the British government’s farcical negotiations to leave
This statement demonstrates your lack of understanding about the difference between EU membership and the facts of being a tag on to England. Even though Scotland has always had its own laws and education, Scotland gets these eroded by Westminster changes. The UK had merely some regulatory and financial limitations placed on it by the EU (in return for being in the best, biggest, most free bloc). Scotland gets to be in the UK so that England can take it out of that bloc. Ta. It was not enough that Thatcher trashed Scotland’s industrial base. So don’t post ignorant statements that try to claim equivalence between being in the UK and being in the EU. It only shows ignorance.
Again (btw you ignore so much of what I posted) you claim being in the UK and being in the EU is the same. No it is not. The constraints, the obligations, the impositions are all hugely less if you are a member of the EU. If you want this explained please just ask.
But thanks for bringing your post back to this thread - about Ms Sturgeon. But shame you deciding to pee on her chips. You could have peed on Cameron’s chips. Or May’s. Or Johnson’s and his not so oven ready deal. But no, you pee on Nicola. Well done. Just shows what it means to you to be English. You pee selectively. And outward.
By the by, I note that the very second the UK leaves the EU the UK water companies pump millions of tons of raw sewerage into the UK’s rivers. This is the future for England as de-regulation accelerates. Please, not the future for Scotland.
If you think you’re having a bad day, spare a thought for the copper that has had to rummage through Nicola Sturgeon’s underwear drawer
It’s a bad job, but somebody’s got to do it Vlad…
It’s a story that will run and run I suspect, the Scottish people don’t really deserve this but isn’t it the same throughout British politics? Sleaze, lies, and money.
I think what’s happened is with all the IT ways and means available now, they’re just getting caught more, nowhere to hide 
