Memory - why do some memories suddenly reappear?

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Replying to a post where I suddenly remembered a bit more of something I was talking about yesterday, I was just thinking about the mysterious way memories work.

Some years back I completed a foundation year in psychology. There was a plan to change careers to actually being a psychologist but life has so far gotten in the way of further studies. We studied memory in some depth with some experiments which demonstrated how memories can change over time.

My recent interest is in how my own mind remembers the tip of a memory when I first recall an event. But hours or days later I suddenly remember more detail or make sense of something that may have not seemed relevant at the time. It’s almost as if the memory triggers the wheels of that part of my brain to churn in the background and dredge up the goods from the archives.

I know most events are committed to long term memory as we sleep via the hippocampus. Obviously as we age this along with everything else in our bodies starts to get less efficient.

So how can we trust our first recall if subsequent recall brings more accuracy into the detail?

Our perception is based on our experience to date. The way we process our memories will be dependent on our own internal filing system which is based on our internal model of how the world works (which is biased to our own understanding and reinforced by us with subsequent events that match that bias). So we decide what is right based on the way we think things are.

This can lead us to remember things in a totally skewed way based on our framework of schemas.. We put things into boxes we have ourselves labelled. The more you study psychology the more you see how imperfect a design we are!

During the course of writing this post I have realised that my question is about the difference between instant recall and subsequent recall studies on witnesses to a mock criminal event have been carried out that substantiate my own anecdotal experience. The interesting thing about such studies is that providing supporting material to a witness in a crime will help the witness build a picture of their own memory.

I’m not sure about others as everyone has slightly different brain wiring, but I find my memory strongly responds to a visual stimulus. Quite often if I walk into a room and see an object it will remind me of a task. This then leads me to wonder - how easy is it to distort memory in a criminal investigation by providing a different scenario? Perhaps this is how false memories are formed.

This is obviously quite a big field with quite a stack of research out there! Please share your experiences of instant vs subsequent recall or just how you find your memory works these days vs when you were younger.

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Well there’s plenty of food for thought there for sure. If only I could remember those thoughts. :crazy_face:

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I watched a programme just the other night regarding recall, what one person sees compared to what others see ,

An experiment was done with a unwitting group on what they saw , and had to describe what the person was wearing , plus what they said , the group more or less said the same till a planted person put forward the persons name , and although there was no name in the situation they began to agree with this planted person,And all agreed on the hat colour and hair , which was totally wrong .
It seems suggestion comes into it , if in doubt you are willing to agree rather than disagree .
My own personal memories have been surfacing for a few weeks , rather they didnt so I kick them out by a choice swear word , what brings them to the fore is , a word or situation ,

Memory is an interesting subject. @AnnieS

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I have struggled to recall words for quite a few years now. They appear suddenly when I don’t need them! Unfortunately/fortunately (depending on circumstances) swear words are easy to remember :grinning:

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It’s best to check your memory daily, I always ask myself who runs the country and answer Sir Keir Starmer, I know he is our President :icon_wink:

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I really did forget my PIN number last week, I had to get my Wife to “Prick” my memory :grin:

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Thank you for making that point! :grinning:

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I had recently purchased a new car and memorised the number, it was an easy number to remember. A few weeks later we were in a car park, there was quite a queue building up at the pay machine so I took my place in the queue. By the time I had worked my way to the front there were several people behind me, I had to put in the registration number of my car and my mind was blank. After faffing about with the buttons for a while I finally abandoned the task and walked away…As I gave up my place at the front of the queue and walked away, I immediately remembered my reg number…Too late, so I took my place at the back of the queue, again…
:worried:
A fine example of being under pressure to perform… :009:

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I find the harder I think of a word I want to say the less chance I have of remembering it :slightly_smiling_face: if I stop thinking about the word it will come to me.

I have found it more difficult to remember words of late when my son comes for lunch. It suddenly occurred to me that going for days without speaking to anyone (my choice I hate going out/driving these days and am happier alone) may be contributing to this inability to remember words during a conversation so now say thoughts out loud to Pippin the dog in the hope it helps.

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That’s why I like writing on the forum Meg, it gives you time find the correct word.

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I read that within the temporal lobe different networks are involved in recalling the details of a memory and in recalling the essence of that memory. If these regions of the brain are damaged, serious memory disorders occur - often in older people and in patients with memory loss.

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In my case, it’s the opposite of most posts here.
I have always been able to recall times, places, what people were wearing at the time, and our surroundings. Many of my friends comment that is very unusual, but when I jog their memory (a class reunion, a concert event, a meeting of a special friend for dinner) they seem to recall it in the same way. And promptly thank me for the nudge. “Oh yes, I’d forgotten about that!”
I have often thought it was triggered from early childhood, when so many crisis at home made me try to stay three jumps ahead with reactions, so as not to cause more turmoil. I was on the quiet side at school, not introverted, but not extroverted either. More middle of the road, in assessing people, events, and everyday occurrences.
It has its down side, too. I cannot reread a book for ten years or more, as I recall the conversations, plot clues, and nothing is new. Also, comparisons to people I knew decades ago, and wonder if they stayed the same, or changed in both views and attitudes. Reconnecting with others, it gives me time recall the warmth or chilliness of our interactions.
We all change, hopefully for the better with time, and gain insight and compassion along the way.
On the plus side, I encourage new adventures with delight, being exposed to new ideas, and generally happy to be surprised by even little things I haven’t yet encountered.

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Did you have any problems after reporting your ICD to the DVLA? I ask in open forum as my PM system is still in negative equity. I have reported my pacer but the buggers have not replied.

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This is all incredibly interesting and became personally critical after my daughter’s chronic autoimmune encephalopathy. It’s hard to believe, but while treating the inflammation, we had to reteach her how to form a memory - even working memory (less than 8 seconds) in the formation of engrams of memory that could be retrieved. Most of her limbic system was believed to be impaired, and the basal ganglia seemed to be particularly affected. To this day she has almost no recall of the last ten full years. No trigger, internal or external (odor, photo, repeating the experience) will help with that recall if she is trying to remember it. Very rarely, something will surface - like the lyrics of a song, or how to solve a math problem, but it is when she is not thinking about recall.

What is also interesting is that despite her memory loss, and very, very slow processing (about 30 seconds to listen and respond, compared to about 8 for elementary school students), she could remember very difficult information (like solving a multistep, complex statistical equation) for a short period of time up to a few weeks, but long term - six weeks or more - and it was gone. Even more interesting is that she has sensational recall of memories before her illness, back to the early days of her adoption at around 34 months. She remembers in the way many women seem to remember - every detail in the room, the gas conversations, and so on. Obviously this has a lot to do with creating engrams in the moment, but to have such sensational recall? Incredible.

There is no question that sleep is necessary to learn. Her insomnia taught us that. We also know that the brain attributes memory in other relaxed states. She was taught, for example, and it works like a charm, to read or work for a while, and then run through the work mentally while she is in the shower. We also learned that journaling in a relaxed state also helps her seed long-term memories. You can create the neuro-pathways to make memory “better.”

What is the most wonderful of all is that despite much of what we have been taught, brain trauma does not necessarily mean permanent damage to the processes or physical structures of memory (neurons, synapses, etc) as we once thought and the brain is most certainly neuroplastic. It can return to full-functioning - processing, memory formation, and, recall - and sleep, nutrition, rest, and neuro-therapy.

Intentionality, the overall state of the brain, the brain’s ability to be redundant, immune responses, and physical structures large and even spaces (synapses), all contribute to memory formation and recall. It’s simply astounding, isn’t it Annie!

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Indeed. It’s amazing how the brain can compensate for damage. There was the lady with half a brain and scientists were astonished how the half that existed compensated and enabled normal processing.

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Isn’t that what happens after a stroke? The undamaged parts take over and get wired anew.

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Quite impressive healing and regeneration is normal when there is damage. But a stroke is so random usually with existing co-morbidities that confound the healing process. The variety of clinical presentations in different stroke sufferers would make it very difficult to do a truly representative comparative study. I am guessing that compensating connections are more successful when part of the brain development of an otherwise healthy child as the plasticity is at its height. We still have so much to learn about this remarkable organ.

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Easy because the alcohol has won off and your sober

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It must be fascinating to watch the healing journey in action. It’s as though the bridge between the memories and the recall is burned during some damage. It’s sometimes possible to rebuild that bridge but it can take years. How many years is it since the encephalopathy? You mention it’s chronic - has your daughter had multiple crises?

They say that you don’t see much improvement after initial healing in the first two years, but I don’t believe such pessimistic prognoses. I think we heal for years and if the brain is suitably coached and challenged in a safe environment it can continue to develop connections to eventually override so many deficits. There is a challenge in understanding how to eke out those pathways without overwhelming the healing patient. There has to be a way to bridge that gap, like jump starting a car. I hope we have the facilities and studies in future to find those jump leads.

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that might be the case if I wasn’t teetotal these days :slight_smile:

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