Loss of two iconic US Military aircraft

The B17 one of only two flying. One at Duxford.

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An appalling incident … the BBC video stops short of impact and the resultant disintegration of both aircraft. Videos of the complete incident from different vantage points are widely available on the internet - they are heart-stopping and heart-rending - the families of the fliers will be devastated … :frowning_face:

Wiki says:

The Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress is an American four-engine heavy bomber used by the United States Army Air Forces and other Allied air forces during World War II. Of the 12,731 aircraft built, approximately 4,735 were lost during the War. Today, 45 planes survive in complete form, 9 of which are airworthy, and 38 of which reside in the United States.

The Bell P-63 Kingcobra is an American fighter aircraft that was developed by Bell Aircraft during World War II. Based on the preceding Bell P-39 Airacobra, the P-63’s design incorporated suggestions from P-39 pilots and was superior to its predecessor in virtually all respects. The P-63 was not accepted for combat use by the United States Army Air Forces. However, it was used during World War II by the Soviet Air Force, which had also been the most prolific user of the P-39.

looks very much like the smaller faster plane miss judged ,the B17 would not have seen him coming up and going into the middle side by the look on the video .A sad loss of lives .
Ive been to Duxford a couple of times just to see the B17 …

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Awful.

@Omah B-17 Flying Fortress G-BEDF Sally B is the last remaining airworthy B-17 in Europe. Sorry for mistake.

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Looks like they were flying at same height, surely there would have been air traffic controllers to separate them.

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AFAIK, the FAA already has a presence on site and investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board were due to arrive today. Until their findings and conclusions are released, all is speculation.

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On a happier note.

This weekend was Wings over Illawarra airshow without any crashes

https://wingsoverillawarra.com.au/

I was very disappointed usually they fly over my house so I get to see the Spitfires, Constalation, DC3s etc but this year the wind must have been wrong.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/13/us/dallas-air-show-collision-sunday/index.html

NTSB launches go-team

The FAA was leading the investigation into the air show crash on Saturday, but the NTSB took over the investigation once its team reached the scene, the agency said at a news conference Sunday. The team dispatched by the NTSB consists of technical experts who are regularly sent to plane crash sites to investigate the collision, according to the NTSB.

“Our team methodically and systematically reviews all evidence and considers all potential factors to determine the probable cause, NTSB member Michael Graham said.

Investigators have started securing the audio recordings from the air traffic control tower and conducting interviews of the other formation crews and air show operations, according to Graham.

Neither aircraft was equipped with a flight data recorder or cockpit voice recorder, often known as the “black box,” he added.

Investigators surveyed the accident site using both an NTSB drone and a photograph of the scene from the ground to document the area before the wreckage is moved to a secure location, Graham said. A preliminary accident report is expected four to six weeks, but a full investigation may last 12 to 18 months before a final report is released.

I don’t get it how can two experienced pilots fly into each other??

I came across this speculative BUT informed video which tries to analyse the crash. The person seems to know what they are talking about.

Basically the P-63 could not see the Boeing

Thank you

News (not speculation):

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/13/us/dallas-air-show-collision-sunday/index.html

The NTSB has received the air show common frequency recording, which is the verbal radio transmissions between pilots, and it will be processed by an investigative specialist, NTSB Member Michael Graham said in an update Monday.

Neither aircraft was equipped with a flight data recorder or cockpit voice recorder, often known as the “black box,” Graham said.

“However, we recovered this morning the electronic flight display from the B-17 and a GPS navigational unit from the P-63,” he said in an update Monday.

The units from the two aircraft were damaged during the accident, according to Graham, and are being sent to the NTSB recorder lab in Washington, D.C., to determine “whether data and relevant information can be recovered from both units.”

“The NTSB’s recorder lab specializes in recovering data from electronic devices and avionics and the data often assist in determining the probable cause,” Graham said.

Data that these types of units “may have,” according to Graham, would be things like GPS location, possible altitudes of the aircraft, and the airspeeds of the aircraft.

Investigators surveyed the accident site using both an NTSB drone and a photograph of the scene from the ground to document the area before the wreckage is moved to a secure location, Graham said earlier.

“We have recovered the wreckage of the P-63 as of this morning, and it has been transported to a secure location and it’ll be laid out for examination and analysis,” Graham said. “Rain has delayed further recovery of the B-17. The recovery process will continue tomorrow, weather permitting.”

Still no final report but:

On the day of the crash, both the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) launched investigations into the accident. On November 14, the NTSB announced that the wreckage of the P-63 had been moved to a “secure location,” while the recovery of the B-17 wreckage was delayed by rain. The NTSB confirmed that neither aircraft was equipped with a flight data recorder, but that a GPS navigator from the P-63 and an electronic flight display from the B-17 had been recovered and were being taken to an NTSB laboratory in Washington, D.C. to be processed for “data and relevant information.”

On November 30, the NTSB released a preliminary report. The report noted the lack of “altitude deconflictions briefed before the flight or while the airplanes were in the air.” That is, the aircraft were allowed to operate at the same altitude. The report also noted that the GPS navigator in the P-63 did not record any information during the flight. On January 12, 2023, the ATC audio was released. No altitude advice was given.

The P-63F involved in the accident was known to have compromised visibility from the cockpit due to metal reinforcements; however, the wings are set further back from the cockpit compared to a P-51 Mustang, so a pilot would have better ventral visibility.