@straffmore, “investment is essential in the capitalist system”
If you leave out the capitalist bit, that is not so ?
Capitalism seems to require that credit is a necessesity for starting and then
running a business, this is untrue, it is not!
For instance, when l started my business decades ago, l approached a
couple of financial institutions for a start up loan, this was not forthcoming !
However, allthough l had few resources as l was building a house at the
time and had two young children to support, l went ahead with my plans!
I won’t deny that things were difficult for at least 4 yrs, but with
perseverance l managed to keep in business for18 yrs without ever applying
for a loan again, allthough finacial institutions constantly called me to offer
me loans ?
I ended up owning two good sized houses in good areas fully paid for and
employed six employees, three of them skilled, all them on the statutory
wages for the trade complete with sick pay/ holidays and all the other stuff !!
Not to mention company vehicles which ,were leased ,and so don’t count ?
During this time l also purchased(for cash) several machines with which to
increase the productivity of my company ?
The only credit l ever had was an overdraft facility that was mostly in
credit !
So, Yes investment IS needed, but the investment that counts is yourself !!
DM,
You’ve just shown yourself, in my opinion, to be one of the good guys, in terms of what you have achieved,
You had an idea, worked hard to get it in place, built your business such that you were able to provide work for others, and so on.
There are lots of others who have strived & done this.
In my opinion, this is where the funds should be available, to help more to do this, as long as the plan is realistic.
Well done!
@Tedc , Fanks for that Ted, l could have done better!
But it seems l was shyte business man,( whatever that is!)
I agree there are lots of stories like mine !
I fail to see how allowing the same people that caused the last financial
crisis ,free rein to do do the same thing again, will improve our economic
performance ?
The timing is all wrong ?
For instance, We are allready over borrowed since covid and the shutdowns,
that alone will take some time to recover from !
Now we have the explosion in energy prices which has spilled over into the
price of food and other imports ! Which the BOE in its wisdom has now
decided to raise interest rates to combat ??
This will inevitably lead to higher prices also !
This interest rate increase will also reflect in us paying more for all the
borrowing that has allready taken place and also the new borrowing that
is now being proposed ??
It is as if they are doing these things on purpose ??
Dun-dun-dunnnnnn! Ya think? 
@PixieKnuckles , Well , most of em are from a banking background
ain’t they ??or married to a banker! Or associated wiv banking !!
Makes yer fink, l fink !
Yep…its not just “fll yer boots”, it’s “fill everything you can so the pleblings can’t get a hold of it - god forbid the peasants get some loose change” 
I’d be interested to hear if anyone here has worked in the finance sector - especially the commercial and investment side of banking. I’ve had a limited experience of this sector. Two years being in Canary Wharf was more than enough. Its a whole different world and, for me, not a pleasant one (although I did enjoy the wine bar that existed within the Waitrose there).
I recall conversations with bankers which were truly scary. I frequently heard that as they were professional they did not need management or oversight. They saw their targets and their bonuses as sufficient managerial control.
So we should expect another financial crisis in about 3 years time.
Come the revolution, their names will be in our little black book.
@strathmore , Yeah, that’s what l think too ! Be grateful you don’t live
here anymore ?
Brexit, or what has passed as Brexit ,was nothing compared to what is
probably in the pipeline!
I suppose it is possible that this gamble pays off,but l can’t see how ?
The only experience of the UK finance industry that l have had was that
our local adviser was not interested in amounts of less than one
million £s ??
But the London sharks would take anything ?
Luckily l called the regulator and they stopped calling soon after!!
The tories are trying to sell us the belief that somehow, giving more money to the very wealthy is going to give all of us some benefit, when we all know that they will just hang on to their cash, or reinvest for their benefit, yet it’s those who earn the least, will be poorer, the bankers have been given carte blanch to make more money on dodgy dealings just like last time…
I read, somewhere, that everyone can become a millionaire.
Apparently, if 50 people get into a lift with a billionaire, the average person, in there, is a millionaire.
For a short period of time…!
That would depend on which “average” is being used.
And it could go up or down!
As long as its earned legally and they pay tax they owe I don’t tend to get worked up over what people have. Many of the people earn massive amounts are also giving a lot to charities.
I’d agree with that provided we add one additional condition. Its not just ‘pay the tax they owe’. Pretty much all do that. However to be fair and equal for all, the tax they owe has to be determined in a way that is accessible to all. Most of us pay our tax via PAYE (over which we have no say in its calculation) and VAT (same). But the very rich can happily duck of many taxes, quite legally, by mechanisms the majority cannot access. That is the bit that is unfair.
Other than that, the rich can crack on with their rich lives.
@strathmore , lf everybody paid the same % of tax of their total income on
tax there would be no problem ?
10% of £100 is £10
10% of £1,000,000 is £100, 000 ??
Not sure how plausible this is, but since many things we buy have both the ex and inc VAT clearly visible (or very easily calculable), wouldn’t it be interesting to have both the net and gross pay being made obvious for jobs whenever applicable?
It’s easy just use a tax calculator:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/
Earn £50,000 in 2022/2023 and you’ll take home around £37,776 across the tax year, including the national insurance (NI) rate changes due in November (1).
Over the year you’ll pay £7,486 income tax and around £4,738 in national insurance (1).
The problem arises with people whose wealth and earnings do not come from a salary. They come from investments, from capital gains, from direct payments for services. Then you add in an opaque structure of holding companies, off shore companies, international earnings and these individuals ability to set out only what they declare as earnings. The UK is a good place to hide true earnings and true wealth. Compared to other countries HMRC asks for relatively little information.
So no simple tax calculator for these folk - unless we call their tax advisor a calculator.