Doctors want 30% pay increase?

I think they have a damned nerve! They are already on a 6 figure salary for working a 3 day week. If you ring our local surgery and ask for a doctor they are always “on annual leave”.

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Hi

GP,s are not NHS employees, they are self employed Contractors.

Hospital Doctors are very different until they become Consultants.

They are PAYE with huge debts.

We do not look after them well.

These hospital doctors also get a lot of free training to qualify them further up the chain. They can then work part time in the NHS hospital and part time in the private sector, increasing salaries massively.

Remember IR35 Swimmy ? It was brought in so that self employed GPs paid the same rate of tax as an employee, however, without sick pay, pension, holiday pay, maternity pay or any other in-work benefit.

If we binned IR35 we would see one hell of a lot more doctors in the NHS and in the UK in general. A lot of them went abroad when IR35 kicked in.

@swimfeeders , " GPs are self employed contractors"
Yebbut, they get paid at a rate agreed with NHS previously !!
Obviously they are trying to raise this rate !!
Trouble is if they get the increase , will they revert to the old system of
face to face consultations ??
I think not !!
Donkeyman! :frowning::frowning:

A lot of that debt never gets paid back anyway,

I agree, Donkey. :+1:

@Bread , Do you mean to say GPs dont qualify for a state pension ??
That cant be true ?
You must mean they dont get an in work pension ?
Why should they if they are self employed , you cant have both ways ??
The other benefits you also mentioned that they dont get such as sick pay
etc , in order to get those they only need to become employees of the
state again and cease being ‘independant’ ??
Donkeyman! :+1::roll_eyes::roll_eyes::+1:

They get a state pension like everyone else but no other non-contributory one like an employee would get.

IR 35 means you pay tax like an employee but do not get any in-work benefits like an employee.

You are a second class worker under IR35 and you pay more tax

Hi

Bread, apart from my usual Northern Scams of Mates Rates and bartering, which trust me were very little, everything I earned was from Government and PAYE.

I know nothing about IR35 and have never had an accountant.

I can understand the Self Employed and the system they use.

It is a lot more involved than turning up for example for a day and plastering the ceiling.

They have to visit first to measure up, then order everything, then make sure it is delivered on time, keep the Invoices and then do the job etc etc.

Many do not recognise this and just envy them and say they are getting £200 a day for plastering, when in fact the job has taken two days with everything involved and then travelling and paying for the van and equipment etc etc.

I also know that Consultants etc have their own costs to pay.

These people also do not get sick pay and have to arrange Insurance, Pensions etc.

They also do not get paid holidays.

I do not understand IR 35etc, I have always been wacked for everything, but good luck to the Self Employed, we could not operate without them.

I am also dead tight.

I use the self employed for building, I can measure up, order stuff and make sure it is on site when they come and I pay cash.

It saves me a fortune.

I do not have accountants and off shore accounts or any of that stuff at all.

I am quite happy with my small arrangements.

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@Bread , Yebbut, you chose to be self employed in the first place??
Why? If there are so many disadvantages ss you say ??
BTW. Only non contributary pension schemes l know are within the civil
servicee and financial institutions ?
The others you have money stopped from your pay packet, which your employer
then subsidises by usually 50% if you are lucky !
You rarely get the full amount back as a pension as the employer is free to
withdraw his portion of the contributions if he so wishes ??
Donkeyman! :-1::frowning::frowning::-1:

The rule on IR35 would mean that, in the case of your plasterers - if they got a job that was plastering, say, 4 floors of a building that would take about 12 months to do, then if they were a limited company they would come under the IR35 rule.

This means that because the contract is 12 months, it is the equivalent of them having a full time job and therefore they should be treated as far as tax is concerned as an employee.

So, the £200 a day would be taxed at the standard rate an employee would be taxed (plus NIC’s) - so they would pay zero tax up to about £12500, 40% over 50K etc. However, even though they are being taxed as an employee, they would not be able to claim expenses (fuel, B&B, tools, van lease etc), they will not receive holiday pay, redundancy, sick pay or a non-contributory pension. The same goes for other benefits the same person working as an employee would get - maybe, private health etc. You are also unable to claim VAT back on goods that are bought.

Thats what the IR35 ruling does - it forces a limited company operating as a one-man-band to pay tax on the rate that they are paid as if they were an employee but without any of the in-work benefits.

There is a lot of angry contractors working on HS2 at the moment because a lot of them, due to the duration of the contracts puts them under IR35.

@Donkeyman I hope this answers your question too.

Don’t know what you mean by the last bit regarding pensions, but employers have to enrol you into a pension scheme now and make contributions unless your are on low wages:

You don’t get that under IR35 - its exempt.

@Bread ,Yep not a bad summing up Bread !
As l ran my own business for 18 yrs, and started as a one man band, albeit
as a PTY Ltd company, l am aware of all the pro’s and cons of being self
employed !!
The point l am trying to make is that l was aware of what l was doing and
was prepared to take the risks involved as well as the benefits!!
I never required special treatment from the government ??
As seems to be the case here??
Donkeyman! :+1::+1:

there is no special treatment by the government regarding IR35, its the exact opposite.

Under IR35 a person who is a limited company would be getting his/her daily rate through the payroll of the company they are contracted to. So it would be 40% tax on the daily rate (minimum). There would be no invoicing, no dividends, no VAT claims, expenses claims, holiday or sick pay, private pension, or anything.

This is the bit I was replying to and he was talking about employers:

@Bread , “no special treatment”
Yeah, thats exactly what l was, however if there was profit at the end of
the year, then l could claim that as a dividend which would be taxed at a lower
rate than paye by a substantial amount?
Obviously my weekly earnings were kept low to take advantage of this !!
The company took care of all those other things you mentioned such as
VAT etc etc !!
Donkeyman! :+1::grin::+1:

You can’t do that (dividends, VAT, expenses) under IR35 because the entire job is payrolled.

You pay tax as if you were an employee on the entire amount.

@Bread , Ah, l see this was only brought in in year 2000 Bread ?
I operated in South Africa untill 2017 and it hadnt been introduced when
l left ??
Sorry for taking up your time !!
Donkeyman! :+1::grin::+1:

No problem DM.

It was brought in for Doctors mainly in 2000 and then rolled out to other companies about 2 or 3 years ago. If we got rid of IR35 we would see a big uptick in Doctors as they would be incentivised to work here much more than currently.

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