Dieting - how is everyone else losing weight and are your ways working?

Health & Diet Health & Diet: Chat / Discussions
101

I agree with most of what you say.
It’s certainly the processing of foods that are at the root of most of the obesity epidemic however we have got to understand why people are in fact eating more and becoming more lethargic and that is partly to do with the type of foods we are eating.
If we take two identical mice and feed one on a coconut oil based diet and the other on a soy oil based diet, Exactly the same food availability and exercise equipment provided which mouse will do the most exercise and which mouse will grow fat and lazy?

The mouse fed the saturated oil coconut oil based chow will be both more active and eat less and remain slimmer The polyunsaturated omega 6 soy oil fed mouse will because the diet is more inflammatory acquire a gut microbiome based on pathogenic gut flora that extract more calories from the food and make that mouse lazy and lethargic. So although the mice have access to the same calorie intakes one will keep eating and lazing about while the other will eat less and do more. Swap the diets around and the lazy mouse becomes active and the active mouse becomes lazy.

102

Forget about mice Ted, factor in the decline in heavy manual work and sedentary lifestyle many people lead these days and the availability of cheap quickly prepared processed food. I think that is more to do with the food some people are eating .

103

Of course people who do heavy work eat more food. If you go for a long walk you will work up an appetite.
Exercise makes you hungry.

Now what makes you stop eating?

What signals to the brain are required to make you feel satiated?

What triggers the release of those satiety hormones that make you feel full and satisfied?

What actually triggers the release of the substances
[B][U]cholecystokinin (CCK), glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1), peptide YY (PYY) that apply the brakes to our appetite[/U][/B].

104

All I can say to you Ted is that since I started the Atkins way of eating. I have had bacon and eggs with mushrooms for breakfast cooked in butter.

For lunch a very small portion of homemade chicken soup made with spinnach, broccoli, leeks, celery and chicken thighs with the skin and a choritzo sausage blended together after a couple of hours in the slow cooker.

For dinner we often eat just a few nuts or have zero carb sausages and eggs. Last night I had a slice of gammon and cheddar cheese.

Each day we have a portion of strawberrie, rasperries and blueberries.

My husband is a type 2 diabetic whose numbers including blood sugar and cholesterol have come down. He has lost 25lbs since January 1st 2012 and has so much energy it is unbelievable. We both used to fall asleep during the evening . Now we are gardening and doing DIY although both of us are disabled through Arthur Ritis.

The difference in both of us is just remarkable. I know fat stops your appetite and makes you feel content with much smaller amounts of food. We do however, drink about 3 litres of water each day.

I am pleased that someone else understands this conception doctors don’t know everything and I am taking responsibility for my own health and the health of my husband.

105

Someone just sent me this and I had to share:-)

Pass The Butter … Please.
This is interesting . … .
Margarine was originally manufactured to fatten turkeys. When it killed the turkeys, the people who had put all the money into the research wanted a payback so they put their heads together to figure out what to do with this product to get their money back.

It was a white substance with no food appeal so they added the yellow colouring and sold it to people to use in place of butter. How do you like it? They have come out with some clever new flavourings…

DO YOU KNOW… The difference between margarine and butter?

Read on to the end…gets very interesting!

Both have the same amount of calories.

Butter is slightly higher in saturated fats at 8 grams; compared to 5 grams for margarine.

Eating margarine can increase heart disease in women by 53% over eating the same amount of butter, according to a recent Harvard Medical Study.

Eating butter increases the absorption of many other nutrients in other foods.

Butter has many nutritional benefits where margarine has a few and
only because they are added!

Butter tastes much better than margarine and it can enhance the flavours of other foods.

Butter has been around for centuries where margarine has been around for less than 100 years .

And now, for Margarine…

Very High in Trans fatty acids.

Triples risk of coronary heart disease .
Increases total cholesterol and LDL (this is the bad cholesterol) and lowers HDL cholesterol, (the good cholesterol)

Increases the risk of cancers up to five times…

Lowers quality of breast milk.

Decreases immune response.

Decreases insulin response.

And here’s the most disturbing fact… HERE IS THE PART THAT IS VERY INTERESTING!

Margarine is but ONE MOLECULE away from being PLASTIC… and shares 27 ingredients with PAINT

These facts alone were enough to have me avoiding margarine for life and anything else that is hydrogenated (this means hydrogen is added, changing the molecular structure of the substance).

You can try this yourself:

Purchase a tub of margarine and leave it open in your garage or shaded area. Within a couple of days you will notice a couple of things:

  • no flies, not even those pesky fruit flies will go near it (that should tell you something)

  • it does not rot or smell differently because it has no nutritional value ; nothing will grow on it. Even those teeny weeny microorganisms will not a find a home to grow. Why? Because it is nearly plastic . Would you melt your Tupperware and spread that on your toast?

Share This With Your Friends…(If you want to butter them up’)!

Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others.
Pass the BUTTER PLEASE

106

That sounds like a substantial soup
Any chance you take paying guests?
Sounds like the kind of establishment that I would enjoy staying at.

Do remember this is a LIFE STYLE and NOT A DIET.
Stop eating this way and your husbands numbers will go in the opposite direction.
It’s also extremely important to understand that ALL DIABETICS become magnesium deficient (as well as generally vitamin d3 and omega 3 deficient) it follows that it’s important to be sure to correct magnesium, vitamin d3 and omega 3 deficiency and that this is a long slow process. Magnesium is stored (Or should be) in your bones but because it is required to counterbalance the actions of calcium it gets dragged out of your bones. To replace that magnesium requires you to be in magnesium surplus, (taking in more than the official RDA for magnesium) all the time your body is repairing/replacing bone cells. It’s a bit like painting the Forth Bridge only it just takes about 10yrs. While you can indeed improve omega 3 and vitamin D status is just 8~12 weeks that is just the circulating plasma levels, to get vitamin D and omega 3 back into every cell in your body is a 2~3 year program.
Don’t spare the butter it’s a good source of Medium Chain Triglycerides, they are used a bit like glucose, instantly available fuel. Coconut oil is another good source of MCT, and is an ideal alternative fuel source for diabetics or Alzheimer’s patients who have damaged glucose metabolisms.
We grumble about hospitals who put food in front of dementia patients but don’t ensure they actually consume that food but isn’t it just a bad to provide glucose based food for dementia patients who have damaged ability to metabolise glucose?
The whole point of food is that we should be able to metabolise it.
If we know diabetics and dementia patients have damaged glucose metabolism isn’t it sadistic to only supply foods for diabetics/dementia patients, we know their metabolism can’t handle?

107

Instead of butter, use coconut oil - it’s much healthier, and has a much higher smoke point.

If you must use butter, make sure it’s organic and clarify it first (removes lactose) - but I’d use coconut oil tbh, with butter as a rare treat.

Re the Atkins diet, I would not recommend it - I would suggest a Palaeolithic diet instead (the Atkins diet is based on it, but also includes things that many don’t agree with). The Palaeolithic diet is the species appropriate diet for humans.

108

Ted Hutchinson Thank you so much for that so interesting. I used to work with a brain injured patients and many of them just gained weight. None of the doctors could tell me why, now I think I understand. So much of what you are saying makes so much sense.

We have an on line health supplement business so we have just brought from our stores some A-Z multi vitamins, some Omega 3 , magnesium and Vit D.

I have never been so excited to see things written down that we have wondered about for years.

The metabolism is an important thing and yet doctors advise slimming pills, starvation diets using milk shakes and such which would be a train wreck to the metabolism.

You are welcome to eat with us any day hubs and I would love a conversation over dinner with you.

Azz Good to see you. the Palaeolithic diet seems to include some things that Atkins says NO to but says NO to things that Atkins agrees with.

Foods allowed
Lean meat, poultry, fish and seafood, eggs, low-starch fruit and vegetables, nuts and seeds.

Foods to eat in moderation
Cold-pressed oils, avocado, tea, coffee and alcoholic drinks, dried fruit.

Foods to eliminate
Cereal products, legumes, dairy products, processed or tinned foods, starchy vegetables (potatoes, cassava, yams), fatty meats, salted foods, fizzy drinks.
Breaking with routine
According to Dr Eaton’s theory, you can allow yourself one, two or even three meals made up of “non-approved” foods each week, and these breaks make the new lifestyle easier to adopt

Atkins allowes peanuts but Dr Eaton says no as they are legumes as are cashews. Eaton allows fruit juice which is full of sugar so Atkins say NO.

This is turning out to be really interesting. Thank you both very much indeedy.

109

Hi CC :slight_smile:

Avocados are very good for you - I would not restrict them (just be sensible about quantities - as with everything else)

I would not have tea, coffee and alcoholic drinks (unless it’s herbal tea, such as peppermint tea - but none of that ‘flavoured stuff’).

As a general rule of thumb when weighing up whether I think a food is good or bad, I ask myself if we went back 100,000 years, would we be eating it?

That doesn’t mean I only go by that rule, I’ll have gluten free grains occasionally, legumes occasionally - mainly as a treat - but my staple is mainly palaeolithic :slight_smile:

110

well this is all above my head Im afraid, I can only add that my dietician at our hospital told me I was better eating lurpak light spreadable than any of the so called substitutes so I do.

111

While I agree a Paleo based diet is a good idea I don’t think we have to be to obsessive about what we eat. The Swedes seem to be doing very well with a more simple and relaxed lower carbohydrate higher fat approach. Providing most of the foods come as basic raw ingredients which you prepare yourself at home then it should be fine providing their is virtually no refined grains or omega 6 seed/grain oils and the meat is mostly free range grass fed.
I think Green Tea drinking goes back almost as far as dairy so I’d be reluctant to give up dairy or tea drinking or my red wine.

The big changes in diet/lifestyle that have precipitated the obesity crisis have occurred over my lifetime so it’s the changes in food over the last 50years or so that most concern me.

112

But the way they make Lurpak spreadable is by reducing the amount of proper butter (down to 47%) and whisking in water and vegetable oil (22%),

there is absolutely no evidence that saturated fat has anything to do with heart disease.
[B][U]Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease[/U][/B]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JFQTNFZRc00/TaKScnaUfkI/AAAAAAAAAy8/mwim8k6VEkc/s400/Soy.jpg Image from Wholehealth source US Omega-6 and Omega-3 Fat Consumption over the Last Century

If we look at what has been happening over the last 50 yrs and more we see the astronomic rise in SOY oil. compared to a drop in saturated fat consumption.

It is simply ludicrous to blame the food items that have bee reduced for the increased rise in disease. It the newly introduced foods like the presence of soy oil in what is supposed to be butter that is the root of the problem. That is where the INFLAMMATION is coming from, It’s not the fault of the butter but the marg. Making your butter as bad for you as margarine isn’t going to help. It’s only going to make matters worse.

113

This is all interesting and the more I read the more I understand. White flour, white sugar and marge was my mums diet during the war years. While her sons were given the butter, meat and cheese and bacon.

Mum died of the symptoms of diabetes. She had gone into ketosis due to a poor diet and not taking her medication. She had been an obese lady but because she had left her diabetes untreated shrunk from 16stones to 7stones.

I am using butter, dripping and lard.

I am fascinated by your diet Azz I had never heard of it before. Did you begin to eat this way to lose weight or just because you decided it was what you wanted?

114

But bear in mind that sugar was rationed during the war, AND the problems with flour have come since the changes to Wheat production (the type of wheat is different and so is the amount of mineral content so it’s more allergenic and more inflammatory since the 1980’s) and the use of the Chorleywood breadmaking process.

Mum died of the symptoms of diabetes. She had gone into ketosis due to a poor diet and not taking her medication. She had been an obese lady but because she had left her diabetes untreated shrunk from 16stones to 7stones.
I don’t want to distract from your loss but I do want to clear up the role of [U][B]KETOSIS which is an entirely natural state[/B][/U] that we should all experience every night if we sleep properly and [url=http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/ketoacidosis.html][B][U]KETOACIDOSIS[/U][/B] which is the dangerous condition that diabetics can experience if they do not properly control blood glucose/insulin levels.
The links go to a relatively clear explanation of the difference.

I am using butter, dripping and lard.

So do I but I also don’t eat refined carbohydrates or sugar/high fructose corn syrup. Your body cannot burn fat as fuel while you are also consume foods that metabolise down to glucose. The glucose has to be disposed of first so the fat gets sent to storage. The less carbohydrate consumed and/or the slower the carbohydrate is broken down, the more likely it is the calories stored in fat cells will come into circulation as a fuel source.

It’s true that fat intake through a meal ensure the secretion of the satiety hormones apply the brakes to food consumption and make us feel full and satisfied and less likely to keep eating or eat between meals, but we also have to distinguish between eating to appetite but not eating all you possibly can. So while it’s true people generally consume less when eating a higher fat lower carbohydrate diet we shouldn’t give the impression that eating low carb/high fat is license to eat gluttonously.

Coconut oil is another Traditional fat that contains the same medium chain triglycerides (MCT) that are found in butter and breast milk, these are burnt as readily as glucose, and form an alternative fuel source that helps the brains of people with dementia function more normally.

115

I think I understand about ketosis. Dr Atkins says that in his first book he referred to ketosis, when he should have written about ketosis/lipolysis. He says the Atkins approach stimulates the process of lipolysis. Ketosis occurs when you are taking in a low level of carbs from the food you eat. This is perfectly normal and a natural function of the body and should not be confused with diabetic ketoacidosis which insulin deficient people having out of control blood sugar levels. I didn’t make my self clear, I do apologise but this is a learning process which I am enjoying greatly.

It’s true that sugar was on ration but somehow people in the countryside could always get some particularly people on farms.

Wow am I to understand that white flour has not been really bad until the eighties with the sliced white loaf I presume?

I like the sound of coconut oil, I use coconut milk and coconut cream in cooking which is very tasty . In the Caribbean people didn’t use anything else but coconut oil until the shops started offering different cooking oils and talking about coconut oil being bad.

When I lived in the Caribbean for three years in the eighties I was amazed at the amount of sugar that was consumed, fizzy drinks and sugar cakes were a lunch time special for school kids. Everyone seemed to have a ‘sweet tooth’ meaning at least three spoonfulls of sugar in any drink.

With the amount of physical work that most people did each day this obviously wasn’t too much of a problem until western foods became popular and people stopped working the land and went into offices. Now there is so many obese people many with diabetes.

116

Mainly the varieties of wheat they used to breed the dwarf wheat varieties came from those most prone to cause celiac disease. The breeders were looking for yield and resistance to herbicide/pesticides not whether people became allergic to wheat or gluten sensitive. Hence we now have escalating levels of celiac and gluten sensitivity. In fact if MOST PEOPLE had a MONTH totally wheat free (that means cooking everything from totally scratch and no ready made sauces etc) they would find they lost weight AND when they went back to the wheat they may notice they didn’t feel so great.
But as well as [B][U]wheat becoming more allergenic[/U][/B] the new dwarf wheats have become less nutritious. [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19013359][B][U]The concentrations of zinc, iron, copper and magnesium remained stable between 1845 and the mid 1960s, but since then have decreased significantly, which coincided with the introduction of semi-dwarf, high-yielding cultivars.[/U][/B]

The main problem with the Chorleywood bread making process is that is uses more yeast for faster rising and so more yeast is left in the bread. The older slower rising process, when bakers used to work through the night, relied on using up all the yeast. Yeast tends to promote the growth of pathogenic gut flora. What happens is the wheat gliadens cause inflammation, that brings blood to the skin surface and the iron in the blood, promotes the growth of pathogenic gut flora. It’s these pathogenic type gut flora that extract more calories from the foods we consume. Hence we get fatter. If we ate a less inflammatory diet more omega 3 type foods, we would have good gut flora that thrive in less inflammatory situations and these promote omega 3 status and also allow more unabsorbed calories to pass out of our systems.

117

My understanding is that the biggest problem with white bread in the past was the bleaching chemicals/process they started to use (and I think it was in the 80’s) which was dangerous. This has now been banned and risk of ill health from the refining process has been eliminated. I believe white bread is quite safe to consume these days. From a good nutrition point of view I agree that whole grains are best and the less refining of most products consumed the better. It is not easy to replace like for like what has been taken away.
Coeliac disease is an inability of the body to process gluten in food. People with coeliac disease will have problems digesting any sort of food containing gluten, white or brown or speckled.
Many people have adopted the idea of gluten intolerance and it has become fashionable to immediately attribute a lot of gut and digestive problems to a gluten intolerance and also other consitituents of food to a dietary intolerance. That is why I believe the prevalence of people with a supposed “gluten intolerance” is higher than in the past - True coeliac disease is a miserable condition - it’s not the odd bout of stomach ache, bloat and loose stools. Coeliacs do not usually get fat, quite the reverse.

118

Perhaps your understanding of the dangers of wheat would improve if you followed Dr Davis’s Wheat Belly blog for a while or perhaps read his book
Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health
or maybe even watched one of his video interviews or a presentation like this
Wheat: The UNhealthy Whole Grain-Part 1
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmsxCN7htHM]
http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/RmsxCN7htHM/default.jpgWheat Unhealthy Whole Grain 2

119

While we have been eating a low carb diet my husband has been talking about a big bowl of chilli with rustic bread. I always make my own bread. You know what goes into it and you can add lots of seeds to make it interesting.

There also seems to be an awful lot of people suffering from IBS Irritable bowel syndrome. Is this also something brought about by allergies?

120

Sorry Ted - I won’t be reading anything with a title “wheat belly”. As I said before people with a diagnosis of being coeliac are not usually fat. We humans are omnivores - we have evolved to - and it is correct IMO - to take nutrients from wide a range of foodstuffs. When man first took to agriculture his Belly (how I hate that word) did not swell up because he ate grains.