State governing of businesses leads to socialist economies. They always end in disaster, where free market economies and self regulation provide freedoms which favours growth, competition and regulations that work for the businesses. The EU single market rules aren’t designed around free markets, they are designed around protectionism. Thats the problem (and a reason why the EU has been in decline for decades, even more recently). Solvency II is a good example of de-regulation, so are the removal of EU state aid rules.
Only a socialist demonises businesses and profits. Just remember businesses pay for everything.
Funnily enough no-one has been talking about state running - only about regulation. You can’t argue against the need for regulation of the finance sector and the proven risks of self-regulating financial markets. So you have changed the topic to state managed companies. That is not maintaining a dialogue. That is pure ‘whataboutary’.
Have you read exactly what happened in Barings that led to their collapse? Self regulation doing what it does - not happening.
If there isn’t self regulation, then it’s the state that regulates - you oppose self regulation and deregulation so you must be in favour of the state regulating companies right ? You can’t have both.
If you want state regulation - fine with me, but the state is useless at running companies, its useless at. business and its useless at regulations. Thats the whole point. You can’t be competitive if the state interferes with everything a business does - thats why we need deregulation, especially from protectionism policies for a trading block we aren’t part of. Thats why we need to deregulate from EU laws - to favour UK industries to be more competitive, by stripping away the unnecessary and bureaucratic burden. The UK is the leading financial market in the world, thats why the UK came up with just about all the financial regulations as well (deregulated). The banks were supposed to leave the UK and go to Frankfurt, so was insurance and clearing and everything else. They didn’t because the UK is world class in finance and the EU not. Thats the advantage of deregulation - we do things better and become more competitive, the last thing we need to to cling on to laws and regulations of a trading block we left 4 years ago.
Barings collapse was down to crap supervision by the way.
The whole Brexit issue makes me SO cross!
Firstly, we (Britain) could have made a success of our position in Europe if our Euro MPs had actually done some work instead of partying around and generally wasting taxpayers money.
Secondly (and lastly) Boris needed a way to get elected as PM and he knew the man in the street was pretty cheesed off with the way we were being pushed around by Merkel and Macon. THAT was his way in and on the side of his battle bus was his first major lie “£500 million a week into the NHS” - remember that? He must have fooled most people - though he was forced to revise that figure to something approaching the truth before he got elected. I decided that if he was going to lie for his first bid at becoming PM, he could lie all the way through so for the first time, I didn’t vote Tory…and I never will again. A bunch of private schoolboy, over privileged, corrupt and contemptuous villains messing around with idiot theories. Trussed up economics and unrealisic theories. The sooner they go, the better we will be. If they are voted back in, this country is finished.
So you do not know the reasons for the destruction of Barings. Thanks for confirming.
Go to bed, regulation is needed when certain businesses can too readily create the need for state bail out. This is an argument where you fail to demonstrate a decent case for your notion of de-regulation. You claim UK success but ignore UK banking crisis. You claim regulatory burden and ignore financial collapse. Its not a convincing argument given the costs from so many crashes.
However this is a thread about Brexit failings. Please start a thread called “how the UK creates financial crashes due to poor regulation” and more can join in.
I just told you the reason for the implosion of Barings - lack of supervision. It’s written clearly in my last post. I suggest you read them.
We both agree we need regulation, but you want it done by the state and I want it done by self regulation.
I haven’t ignored the banking crisis either - I’ve explained this many times. You seem to think the government needs to be the regulator of the banks but in 2008 the government (Gordon Brown) did nothing - thats why the banks collapsed. This wasn’t something that had happened overnight it was going on for years - high risk borrowing and lending on the sub prime markets without ring fencing low risk assets. The outcome of 2008 is better regulation of the banks to prevent it happening again.
The UK didn’t create the financial crash either, thats just you making things up as usual.
And as for starting a thread on financial crashes, you brought it up, not me.
Barings failed in its role of self-regulation and this led directly to its collapse. Leeson, the trader who caused all the problems, was allowed to execute deals and then process the deals. The regulations stated that this was to be done by two different parties, specifically to avoid anyone making false trade, hiding bad trades and trading illegally. The board of Barings was found guilty of failing in their duty to impose proper risk management and controls. Self-regulation did not work because everyone from Leeson’s boss upwards was too delighted to take the money earned (I say earned, the management literally did nothing) and ignore the rules being broken and the risks being created. This is the result when you only have self-regulation.
However, I suspect two things. We are well off track from the topic of this thread. We are possibly also splitting hairs. I think you mean industry sector self regulation - possibly by an independent body set up and funded by the finance sector. What I’ve been meaning by self-regulation is each individual finance business regulating itself. And what I’ve meant by state regulation is an independent body set up by government and key roles assigned by government. It seems to me that we are in fact both talking about an independent regulatory body. And therefore essentially disagreeing about nothing.
According to the radio reports this morning Britain looks to avoid a technical recession BUT the standard of living in the UK will suffer the biggest fall since the 1950s.
They said it was a Government budget report but I can’t find it, anybody know where it came from?
Speaking as a former English Language tutor, it’s about bloody time they tackled the obvious decline in the accurate use of the English language, itself.
I was just watching an Irish journalist who is visiting Australia talking about the Irish Protocol.
Basically he was saying that NI has the best of both worlds, close ties with Eire, de facto membership of the EU and its benefits as well as financial support from Britain.
He thought the UK protestant ethos belonged to another era and that it is inevitable that NI will eventually leave the UK and become part of a United Ireland.
‘The European Court of Justice and its politically inclined activist judges are constantly reinterpreting treaties. With their court rulings, they are constantly making politics for an EU that is becoming more centralised and more powerful. At the expense of the Member States and their citizens, of course.’
The British mob probably complicit in the oppression.
Thank you. I’ve been wondering what a German Nigel Farage might look like. You’ve found him. I suspect there is one in most European countries. He is wrong, of course, and does not represent the views of the majority of Germans…
I know you want to find huge support in each EU country for leaving the EU but its just not there. There was a dabbling with the notion back before Brexit but the UK has fully demonstrated the issues associated with that path. Even here in France, Le Pens’ Ressamblement National no longer has leaving the EU has one of it’s policies. Its simply not a vote winner. Recent poles confirm this (which I’ve shared not that long ago). So there’s no need to ask each German.
Note: the 2021 federal election saw the vote for this Alternative for Germany party fall 20% since the previous election (to 10% of the total vote). So hardly commanding a growing voice for Germany exiting the EU.
Please point me to a post where I’ve said I wanted other EU countries to show support for leaving. Coz you won’t find one, I stay out of other countries politics, I’ll leave it up to them to decide what’s best for them and wish them well with whatever that is.
I think you mean recent polls not poles and if that is the case, what was the polls showing in the UK before the referendum?
