Yes John, they think more people equal more voters imo?
Donkeyman!
If we don’t control the population, nature will. The global system loves balance, and even if it means wiping out the human population, nature will achieve stasis. If we want to survive, then we have to work with the system because for all of our self-importance, nature could care less. We are a new, extremely resource-dependent species, and nature tends to be intolerant of the inelegant.
From my perspective of reading and work, the science is very clear that the planet is warming. While this could absolutely be the result of a natural cyclical change, there is just too much data out there to deny that we are pressing down the accelerator. Are there natural cooling reactions to this warming? Absolutely, but from what we can see, not enough.
Most definitely there are also efforts to curb the impact of too much carbon dioxide, nitrogen, methane (good points about all eating releases methane and CO2 but there are “buts”) and even water vapor in the air. There are some very bright entrepreneurs and scientists who are going to make a bucket load with technology to capture these gases.
Can we make an impact on sustaining the balance, and really ourselves? Yes, we already are, and we can expect more in the form of cheaper innovations and governmental regulation when we don’t want to comply. The reality is that we don’t comply unless it means money in our pockets and not to much inconvenience.
Yes, there will always be steaks. Most likely they will be lab grown, but farm raised meat, individual cars, and heat, for that matter, will be for the wealthy. The world is going to look different: fewer trees, no free-roaming large mammals, higher land densities, indoor industrial farming, more mass transportation, less decoration and more functionality, less frivolity and more survival, less natural and more synthetic, but people will get by - while we breed ourselves into extinction.
Y’all go easy on us vegetarians. 
The picture you paint of the future Surfamum is very bleak, and
tallies almost identically with mine!
Where we differ is only on what is causing the warming and what
we can do about it?
It is possible that we have actually triggered the warmiing cycle by
our activities and thus all we have to do is stop doing whatever we
we are doing and then things will revert to (normal) again, but l
think it is more likely that the planet is going through a long term
warming period for reasons it is not possible to understand yet and
which unfortunately coincide with us creating unprecedented
amounts of emissions which are magnifying and speeding up the
natural process?
If this turns out to be true it is bad news for all life on this planet, as
we will only be here for the ride?
I dont think being carnivorous will have much if any effect on the
eventual outcome? And dont forget that the animals are an integral
part of the eco-system and actually provide the fertilizer and alter
the structure of the soil over great lengths of time and so assisting
the growth of more abundant vegetation for the herbivores ( read
vegetarians) to live on, and so it goes on, ( we hope)
Give the carnivores a break we are part of the system, we just
Insist on breeding too much!
Have a nice day in Trumpland!
Donkeyman!
No one will say it John. No one will admit that it is the main cause of all the problems here in the UK let alone the planet.
Hi, Donkeyman, We are in agreement that the warming and heating cycles of the Earth are cyclical, and that we appear to be entering a natural heating cycle.
I do think man can make it worse…but what we aren’t talking about is… that we could make it better. The effects just haven’t affected our finances or quality of life enough yet to do anything too drastic.
I don’t think anyone will ever be forced to give up meat; it will just become too expensive to eat very much, if any, of it.
Oh, and there’s no judgement from me; we vegetarians (unfortunately) are out here overbreeding with the rest of them.
I’ll take my chances. The way I survive on this planet is to eat a balanced diet.
I eat meat, fish, chicken, vegetables, fruit and cereal. If we all start fretting about that kind of thing we’re all gonna die of anxiety, depression or starvation.
Look after the planet by not throwing litter around, not chopping down too many trees and look after the animals.
The rest is in whatever we call “God’s” hands. Wearing flip flops made of straw and living on lentil chips will not make an apeth of different to the climate.
It will happen like the ice age happened yonks ago and it’s way beyond our control.
Good post Floydy…
…and a way of life that I subscribe to…
We could also start to repair things like we used to instead of throwing stuff away and wasting vital resources.
That’s right, Bob 
I did miss out one other thing which helps the planet. Drinking real ale. It’s made of natural ingredients such as dead blackbirds and wood shavings but that’s more tasty than all the chemicals that go into Carling Black Label! 
I do think we all eat to much !
Maybe not certain African countries for example, and there are starving populations all over the world, which in 21st century is a disgrace.
Producing less meat will not make much difference IMO, but what will be problematic in the future, is disease.
The black death, plague , wiped out populations in previous centuries , and they spread like wildfire. Now we have international travel there is little chance that a rampant disease could be contained or even halted before mass death.
Black death killed 50 million throughout Europe in 14th century , which was 60% of the total population !
There is a danger that global warming will release old lethal viruses frozen in ice for centuries.
You certainly know your ales Floydy and your spot on when you
mention that headache making black label, you missed out on
the fosters washing up water though?
Good Health!
Donkeyman!
Its nice to hear the merican point of view Surfamum, you sound
like a pretty cool chick?
Things seem more laid back regarding the carnivore v vegan issue
over there l think?
But over here, in the space of about 4yrs, vegans have grown from
almost zero to almost overwhelming! They even talk of forcing
farmers to get rid of 50% of their animals? But our situation is very
different to yours as we are a very small overpopulated island,
Whereas you guys have vast areas to live in?
Anyway, its been nice chatting to you, keep on posting!
Regards Donkeyman!
Agree about that diabolical Carling. A really desperate drink!
Oh by the way Floydy, I’ve just got you one in!! :-):-)
Cheers lads! :-p
Tell you what I’ve had this afternoon. I drove to the pub and had a pint of Black Sheep ale followed by a bottle of Becks Blue zero-alcohol imitation lager and a very nice Lavazza latte to finish off with. Still able to go out and enjoy myself through this illness and have a good old chinwag with The Saturday Afternoon Gang.
I don’t think that overpopulation is necessarily the earth destroying monster that it’s made out to be Surfermom.
I agree that something needs to be done for future generations as climate change will probably reduce the area of habitable land available for humans, and indeed, there are places now that cannot sustain life, and throwing money and resources at the people living there is just counterproductive, and a tempting opportunity for corruption.
The Earth is 71% water, and 29% land, 27% is high mountains, forests, deserts or unsuitable terrain for human habitation; 1.8% is pasture or arable farm land; mankind occupies some of the remaining 0.2% The world is a far bigger place than most people can contemplate and as you can see, as far as being overpopulated, the world hardly notices we are here…And pre 20th century it didn’t until we started driving, flying and sailing big diesel engined or coal burning ships, and that’s when our problems began.
Yer average civilised bloke or woman these days wants a car each, complete with sat nav and all the latest gizmo’s. A house decorated every other year filled with labour saving devices such as dishwashers, microwaves, washing machines, fridges, freezers, TV’s, computers, smartphones, and then there is clothing (accounting for almost 30% of CO2 production and pollution) with fashions that change at the blink of an eye, so good clothes are binned off hardly worn. Food is not a problem, drive down to your local supermarket and purchase food from all over the world for less than the cost of smartphone contract…
We all earn too much money compared to our needs and it’s priced us out of the global market, obtaining most of our goods and food from somewhere else. Our priorities these days are listening to music, watching TV and box sets, playing computer games and spending time on facebook, twitter or forums…
Priorities in the fifties was putting food on the table and it was so expensive compared to wages, that most people I knew grew crops in their back gardens to save money. Nobody owned a car, they didn’t even own their own home, except the well to do…And things got repaired instead of binned…
Everyone on this forum has heard this all before and I’m not suggesting that we return to those good old days, but for the human race to continue we must reduce our demand on the Earth’s resources because in comparison to our 19th century predecessors we are far too expensive to keep. Even a population of 7.7 billion living by 1800’s standards would put no strain on the Earth at all.
Donkeyman, thanks. Good to read your thoughts on the subject. One of the things I enjoy about this site is learning and appreciating the difference between our countries and cultures. Is the vegan movement over there really that militant? 
Puddle Duck :-D, yes, we probably consume just too much of everything. It’s awfully hard to discipline ourselves to do just about anything.
Floydy, I think you express how most people feel. There’s nothing wrong with the way you live. I suppose that if we all try a little, that’s something ;-). Artful does make a point that if we are aware, we might find a way here and there, that combined with everyone else, might make a little difference.
Muddy, you make an important point :-D. I suppose there is always the potential for new - old viruses 
. New one mutate like crazy so our immune systems have to remain vigilant. I do know that there was an outbreak of anthrax sometime back when it thawed out of permafrost. Immunologists are saying that the greater threat will probably come from tropical diseases like malaria and dengue fever as those pathogens have an expanded ecosystem.
OGF, what a thoughtful post 
! You touched on some very valid points regarding the livable parts of the earth and the lifestyles of previous generations. There is no doubt that our affluence has crept up on us, and I am old enough to suffer when something that can be repaired is tossed out because it’s either too hard to find someone willing to do the repairs or replacement cost is cheaper.
We probably need to consume less for obvious reasons, but even if we become more disciplined how do we keep our economies afloat in such consumer-driven economies 
?
Climate change! What sort of climate do we want? A moderately warm climate. This will upset people living in tropical regions like Africa and central America, those living in the the extreme northern and extreme southern parts of the planet. As the old saying goes, You can please some of the people some of the time etc;
We can all do our bit to help things like global warming but IMO we can do very little as the whole way the universe is changing will effect us all. It has been said that our planet,s orbit is changing. Very slightly but changing nevertheless and the smallest change can make a huge difference to our climate. No matter what we do, we can do nothing in the long run. Our climate will change and there is nothing we can do to stop it. We may be able to slow the process down a little but that,s all.
Millions of years ago the northern part of our planet was covered in ice. A hundred years ago the Thames was known to freeze over and the sea around the coast was known to freeze. The earth is getting warmer and there is nothing we can do to stop it.
Just been watching the local politics show.
Urging people to plant up to a million trees to ‘Save the planet’
Fine but as soon as these trees start to grow along comes the council. “We have to build a thousand more houses” So up come the trees to be replaced with bricks and mortar.
We just can,t win.
Good post Ben, and how much wood does it take to build a new house? ‘A’ frames and roof joists, door frames and floorboards…So up come more trees.
And we don’t get bricks and mortar for free, lot’s of heat (CO2) and pollution…(Lime Quarrying) makes a mess of the country…
I was told by me mum not to mix me drinks Floydy?
Who should l listen to?
BDonkeyman!