A problem with a will

Finance & Banking Finance & Banking: Chat / Discussions
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1

This is a combined financial and legal problem, and perhaps like many such problems, it revolves around a family squabble over a will

My wife’s father, my FIL, died in August 2018, and he had previously stated that he would leave everything to his wife, my MIL
He was always fond of our children, his grandchildren, becoming increasingly affectionate towards the last couple of years of his life
We suspect that he changed his will to leave something for them, and possibly others, whilst still leaving the bulk of his estate to his wife

Now, she doesn’t really need the money - the house is paid for, she has several pensions & insurances, she doesn’t have a car, and doesn’t go out much

She has instructed her solicitor not to reveal the will, (or carry out, or whatever the correct term is) so no-one, including any other beneficiaries knows exactly what’s in it.
We suspect that is because she knows the content, including any changes and other beneficiaries, and is keeping the details to herself, out of spite -
If she can’t have it all, then no-one else can have any

A further complication is that a family friend, Brian, died in October this year
He didn’t have any family, so he said he would leave his estate (house & savings) to be shared equally between a few friends, including FIL
However, he did not update his will to allow for FIL’s death, and Brian’s solicitor says as FIL was a beneficiary they cannot process Brian’s will, including the sale of his house and the distribution of money, until FIL’s will is settled

No doubt this has added to MIL’s pleasure and satisfaction, as not only will FIL’s direct beneficiaries be stymied, but also those from Brian’s will.

I Hope you can follow that!

As you might expect, the various actual & possible beneficiaries are not happy about the situation and have requested with increasing frustration and impatience that she should reveal FIL’s will, something she has so far refused to do, and with no sign of this changing in the future

So, after the background to the problem, my question is this -

Is there any way of finding out the contents of both wills, but especially FIL’s, without her permission?
Or any way of forcing MIL to have it officially revealed and carried out?

A further thought that is occupying most of our minds is this - is there any time limit on a will?
It is fast approaching 2 1/2 years since FIL died, it would be very annoying, to put it mildly, if it was all lost or forfeited by MIL’s stubborness

2

If the will has been sent to Probate once probate has been granted ( unless the executor has filed a wish to keep some parts private ) it will be a public document .

Your FILs will must have gone to probate by now .

However
Your MIL might not need to get probate if the estate was held jointly with her husband , for example a joint bank account .

Brian’s solicitor need to get onto this if your MIL is refusing to divulge the contents of the will it seems very strange especially as there is another persons will involved . Anything that comes to your late FIL will go to his estate so it benefits her ( if the estate goes to her ) so it does seem posible that he has made a new will .Unless of course she is just completely irrational .

3

I would have thought it was the responsibility of your late FIL’s solicitor and the Executor(s) of the Will to ensure it was acted upon.

4

Thanks for your replies

MUDDY - We will find out if FIL’s will has gone to Probate

LAST TANGO - I think that in most cases, although it’s not a very happy situation, the various parties want to have a will sorted asap
The problem here is that MIL is the Sole Executor, and wants the opposite - to keep things a secret. She has also instructed their solicitor not to reveal anything

So it looks like we’re stuck unless there is any legal way round it

5

This is a coincidence, Probate, talked to the FILs Solicitor today, cost £900.00 + VAT, googled the process and there is a DIY kit £29.99, anyone gone down the DIY route?

6

I found this on the Citizens’ Advice website:

“There is no need for probate or letters of administration unless there are other assets that are not jointly owned. … Probate or letters of administration will be needed so the personal representative can pass it whoever will inherit the share of the property, according to the will or the rules of intestacy.”

I wouldn’t even begin to attempt to write or probate a will myself. I leave it to those most qualified to do the job.

7

Hi

Wills are a nightmare when family are involved.

My dad died in Kirk Sandall, not far from Foxy some years ago.

His partners daughter has got involved and it is a nightmare.

8

Yes, I did d.i.y probate for my mother’s estate. Her will was not complicated. Her assets were split between myself and my sister, with just a couple of charities benefitting as well. It was a fairly straightforward process and apart from one court attendance at the end, it was all done on line.My mum had made us both executors.

9

OK, here’s where we’re at -

I’ve had a check on the YouGov website and it doesn’t look like FIL’s will/estate has gone to Probate

The various interested parties will ask MIL again to sort things, in early to mid January

If she has not done so by Feb then the situation is beyond our ability, and we will go down the legal route and see what can be done to get the job done
The case is that MIL is being -

Either deliberately obstructive/fraudulent/deceitful/malicious

Or not capable of running her own affairs

Or a combination of the two

10

A DIY will is fine if it is a simple will.
Ie all to my wife .
You can get these that come with instructions from WH.Smith

Otherwise it is a nightmare .
Especially where children and second marriages are involved .

It’s essential to have your wishes set out clearly if you don’t want to leave your children problems .

Most importantly it’s important to have a will to die intestate if you have something to leave always causes distress.

11

For Zuludog

The problem is Zuludog you suspect your f.i.l has left something to the children - you don’t know for sure. To add to this as the wife of your f.i.l. probate does not have to be applied for as she would normally inherit the assets of her husband. It might be worth getting a solicitor of your own if you feel the children could have inherited a substantial share of the will. Your own solicitor would be able to tell you for sure what the process is in this case and also may well be able to persuade her solicitor to talk reason to your m.i.l. If f.i.l has left them something I don’t think the executor (your m.i.l) can withold the money from them, but you need proof, and she has the upper hand, particularly if you are not sure. It’s a bit of a sad and mean thing on the part of your m.i.l in my opinion and I hope she will see sense so you can get it sorted. Otherwise, you may have to wait until she has died and probate for her will has been applied for.

12

It looks like you may have to get a Court application to compel the Executor your MIL into getting Probate, after which the Will would become public.

What a pain everything legal costs money .

13

I did probate for my father it was easy .

It was very straightforward he left everything to his three children .

14

Thankyou AEROLOR and MUDDY
You have summed up the problem very well

It looks like we have a chicken - and - egg situation; or should that be Catch 22?
We have our suspicions, but the very person we suspect is preventing us from confirming them or not

We are suspicious because -

We have all had dealings with MIL in the past - enough said?

If FIL has indeed left his entire estate to her, then that’s fair enough, and we have no problems with that
In which case, why is she being so secretive and stubborn about reading his will?

As I mentioned we will ask again, and if there is still no progress we will have to go to a solicitor, which would be extremely annoying as it would result in more delays, effort, and expense of course

15

I wish you luck … family wills are a frustrating and stressful minefield.

As others have said … as his wife, your MIL might not need to apply for Probate at all if property or bank accounts were held in joint names.
My own step-father still hadn’t applied for probate 2 years after my mum died.
You can do a little bit of research yourself before considering pricey solicitor fees.

Until Probate is applied for wills are not in the public domain. Once probate is granted you can get your own copy of the will if one was included.
You can find out if it has been applied for here.

(Try one or two years after the death if you think Probate was delayed. My step-dad took 3 years).

I might add that in inheritance law the law always favours the spouse, wife or partner over children.
If he had died without leaving a will at all she would automatically have got everything anyway.

Even if her solicitor has been threatened on pain of death to say nothing I still wouldn’t have thought it unreasonable to ask/demand of him whether probate has been applied for and if not, perhaps more pertinently, why not? Why the delay?