Don’t forget the German POW,s captured by the Russians, many didn’t return until the early/mid fifties, if they returned at all…
It’s understandable if the main reason for that is added and that was " to support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressures” as stated in the Truman Doctrine. IOW, apart form economic considerations the USA had a vested interest in preventing the expansion of Soviet totalitarianism into large parts of Western and Southern Europe.
It should also be mentioned that not just West Germany but a number of other European countries ( 17) benefited from the European Recovery Programme which was also largely in the form of credits and the supply of foods and raw materials, i.e. repayable.
Say what you will but Stalin was a bigger criminal than Hitler. He was responsible for a far bigger crime against his own people than Hitler ever was against the Jews.
I disagree. Joe Stalin was facing the attempts funded and supported from outside to overthrow the Russian Revolution. Check out “White Russians”. On top of that the war in Europe was raging.
His “own people” were NOT his own people. The people who fell foul were counter-revolutionary forces who were attacking the free Russians with just as much ferocity and so had to either join the free russian people or face the consequences. Their decision.
Jus thinking the same Annie?
And no nasty innuendos either?
Very refreshing! imo of course !!
Donkeyman!
Is there any documentation available Dachs that shows Germany
and other European powers ever paid these debts?? And Russia
also received vast amounts of aid from USA !! Did it ever get
repaid ??
Your info about the Truman doctrine is very interesting to me as
it confirms my views as to why America acted as it did post war !!
So thanks for posting that !!
Donkeyman!
Those US-$320 bn of war reparations which Germany was to pay originally in total proved to be non-repayable. Again, due to the Truman doctrine, they were gradually lowered to roughly $17 bn. (see top three bars in bar chart). In total, Germany has paid war reparations of something like US-$38 bn by 2000.
From Marshall plan funds, in particular, West Germany had received loans to the tune of $1.4 bn of which US-$ 1 bn were repaid as stipulated by the London Agreement on German External Debts.
So it seems that Germany has paid of a small portion of the costs
of the war to USA then Dachs, at least that’s something l suppose?However , UK borrowed, in materials and arms etc from the US and
Canada a total of. £2•8 billion of which we repaid £4•8 billion over
50 years, so almost double what we borrowed ??
The amounts sound trifling now don’t they!!
What l have been unable to ascertain though is if the axis countries
ever made reparations to UK ??
And don’t forget that USA and UK kept large standing armies in
Germany for many years ostensibly to hold back the communist
hordes ?? Who financed that?
And don’t forget the Berlin blockade when all supplies into Berlin
had to be airlifted in? Who paid for that!??
Imo it should have been USA, and they may well have done so?
But l have no info on this !!
Thanks for your links !!
Donkeyman!
The UK declared war on Germany. In any case why should Germany pay for foreign forces on German soil? Berlin airlift? If any nation should pay then the USSR. Not Germany.
@Donkeyman wrote:
So it seems that Germany has paid of a small portion of the costs of the war to USA then Dachs, at least that’s something l suppose?However , UK borrowed, in materials and arms etc from the US and Canada a total of. £2•8 billion of which we repaid £4•8 billion over 50 years, so almost double what we borrowed ??
That’s something that should have been negotiated with the US and Canada.
The amounts sound trifling now don’t they!!What l have been unable to ascertain though is if the axis countries ever made reparations to UK ??
“According to the Yalta Conference, no reparations to Allied countries would be paid in money. Instead much of the value transferred consisted of German industrial assets as well as forced labour to the Allies.[2] The Allied demands were further outlined during the Potsdam Conference. Reparations were to be directly paid to the four victor powers (France, Britain, USA and the Soviet Union); for the countries in the Soviet sphere of influence, the Soviet Union would determine its distribution.” […]
At the beginning of the occupation, the Allies dismantled the remnants of German industries. Plants and machinery were dismantled, the railroad system deconstructed and everything transported to the Allies. The German merchant fleet and all other ships were handed over. Foreign stocks of about 2.5 billion dollars were confiscated. The remaining German industries had to give up a share of their production to the Allies. Large shipments of steel, coal, but also other industrial production were seized and transported out of the country.[4] Later the Western Allies softened their stance in favour of the Marshall Plan, while Eastern Germany continued to deliver industrial goods and raw materials to the Soviet Union until 1953.[5]" […]
Millions of Germans were pressed into forced labour for several years to work for the Allies in camps, mining, harvesting or industry. "
[I]And don't forget that USA and UK kept large standing armies in Germany for many years ostensibly to hold back the communist[/I][I] hordes ?? Who financed that?[/I]
“After World War II ended, the main four Allied powers – Great Britain, The United States, France, and the Soviet Union – jointly occupied Germany, with the Allied occupation officially ending in the 1950s. During this time, Germany was held accountable for the Allied occupation’s expenses, amounting to over several billion dollars.[B]”
[/B] And don’t forget the Berlin blockade when all supplies into Berlin had to be airlifted in? Who paid for that!?? Imo it should have been USA, and they may well have done so? But l have no info on this !!
The costs of the airlift were initially paid for by the US and Britain (US-$ 200 million), later on by the Germans. In Nov 1948 the three western occupied zones (later on the FRG) raised a special tax “Notopfer Berlin” which was in effect until 1958.
Very interesting.
However, I’d be interested to learn what proportions were handed over to America and what proportions to the UK.
Wow! Exactly what l wanted to know Dachs !!
As l was working in the machine tool ldustry at that time, l wondered
why there were so many machines of continental manufacture
being used in one particular company l worked for??
These machines had a MOD,( ministry of defence) stencil on them
and most of them were in bad condition and worn out, ( l presume
by being continuously over worked ?) during the war!!
Most but not all. of these machines were German, my job was to
put these machines back in good working order so from my point
view this was a good thing as plenty of overtime for me??
I was under the impression at the time that we had stolen them from
the defeated enemy which made it even better??
Thanks to your info it seems that we were given these worn out
machines in lieu of monetary payments and so were somewhat
short changed??
I blame the British authorities for not inspecting what they were
getting before shipping them over,for this! Although l benefited
personally from the situation at the time !!
Once again, thanks for the info, l will read it again to see if l can dig
anything further out from it?
Donkeyman!
You seem to be answering a different question. If anyone overthrew the Russian revolution it was Stalin himself. But that’s not the subject of this thread. He shot his own returning soldiers as collaborators because they were captured by the enemy. He placed no value on human life.
My goodness - what a wealth of information!
Thank you all very much - I do appreciate all the input and have carefully bookmarked all the links that have been suggested. I will certainly follow them up when I have worked my way through these DVDs. Obviously I have a steep learning curve ahead of me - but I am sure I will enjoy the journey - I love to learn!
Hi
75years ago and history is written by the winners.
Simple view from me, the USA and Russians won.
The UK would be speaking German now without them.
We PAID the USA to help us…and we’re still paying. Why do you think they have American Army bases here?
The UK was starving - virtually blockaded by uboats yet America insisted we pay in gold before they helped!!!
America’s full participation didn’t come until after Pearl Harbour. We DO NOT OWE America any thanks - and they DID NOT WIN THE THE WAR!
:shock:
Has anyone here got experience of researching the role of British Military Intelligence Agents in occupied Europe?
Swimfeeders is absolutely correct. Without the U.S., Britain would now be speaking German. Even BEFORE the war, Britain had to import 70% of it’s foodstuffs. Without America sending food to the U.K. , many Brits would have staved to death.
Lindyloo,
You seem unbelievably ungrateful. 1st, the U.S bases still in the U.K. are there to protect the U.K. and indeed all of the NATO countries, from any and all current day threats .
2nd, and most importantly, it is critical to understand that FDR had his hands tied by the “Neutrality Act” of 1939. The overwhelming % of U.S. citizens were extremely anti-war and did not want to become involved in another European war, in spite of the fact that most U.S. citizens were pro-British.
You mentioned “full participation”. Until December 1941, it would have been illegal to grant Britain everything she asked for. Early in the war, working together, Churchill and FDR worked out a lend-lease program , which side-stepped the Neutrality Act and allowed the U.S to “lend” both food and military equipment to the U.K. in exchange for leasing British eastern Atlantic bases which Britain could ill afford to defend anyway.
After December 1941, the flood gates were opened and the U.S. supplied everything to Britain that it possibly could and still be able to fight a 2 ocean war. Had Churchill been PM in 1938 onward, I feel positive that he would have dealt with Hitler in an entirely different manner and things would have turned out differently.
Remember this, if it had not been for the weak willed, jelly spine, PM Chamberlain (at Munich), Germany might never have gotten a running head start on the war.
In any event, I can’t imagine that Britain could ever have successfully invaded “fortress Europe”. Thus she, Britain, would have had to wait until the Russians defeated the Nazis but by then the Russians would have controlled all of Europe. (Even France? ). Either way, it is impossible to imagine that the U.K. could have ever taken on the Nazis in a head-to head battle on mainland Europe without the Americans.
No one is asking anyone to kiss Americas arse. But, a touch of gratitude would be in order.
Ungrateful? How grateful should we be for things we were paid for…and the English were starving before those paid for foodstuffs arrived.
This is a matter of historical fact. I’d just like to point that out. In fact I believe we didn’t complete paying until fairly recent years.
If the Americans had seen us as their friends and allies across the ocean, they surely would have helped to support us in our hour of need…and that wasn’t the case!
I think that the relevant fact, in all that’s said, in this topic, should be that the war was only going to be won after all of the allied countries joined together and supported each other in the effort.
Watching the movies, reading the books, all created since, does not a lot to help with understanding that.
I’m proud that Britain got involved early.
Had we not done so, virtually all of Europe would now be Nazi!
A touch of gratitude, coming our way, would be nice!