I think you are talking about public services? I was talking about someone coming to fix your leaky tap or trimming your hedge or painting your windows or cleaning your house or fixing your car. Now some of these people do not pay the right amount of tax but that is by no means an indicator of their not creating value in the economy. Yes there is a great need for tax to pay for public services, but large amounts of money there are wasted and nobody seems to be held to account when that happens. So you can’t just say it costs 20 billion or whatever it was without taking all factors into account. How much does ineptitude in financial management at the centre cost the economy?
How can anyone have value to the economy, if they steal from it? That is the same logic that allowed Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris & Bill Cosby to get away with their conduct. I am not comparing the offences, but the behaviour which permitted the offence.
If the law is to have any integrity, then it needs to be equal, not make random value judgements about who is above it.
@AnnieS , Ah, l see, l get your point Annie and agree that all tenders etc
should be scrutinised properly before being granted and escalation clauses
not be allowed at all!!
Increases in tender prices must be negotiated seperately at the time !
What we have at present seem to be open ended contracts ?
Donkeyman! 
Hi
We have not balanced the books for years, we have been borrowing to pay for day to day expenditure as well as cutting services.
The extra £350 million has disappeared, we have only been out of the EU for a short while and the NHS has not had an extra £17 billion a year since the day of leaving on top of normal increases or pandemic money.
We have borrowed a huge amount since the pandemic which needs to be payed back.
Years?
Try centuries.
Certainly at least since The Bank of England was established in 1694 British governments have been in debt, more frequently increasing the country’s debt than reducing it.
By the end of the Napoloeonic wars the UK owed more than 200% of GDP and now it’s hovering around somewhere hust under 100% of GDP (98.8% according to the ONS latest figures of July 2021).
But that’s what countries do.
Every single one of them, although admittedly some do owe less as a proportion of their GDP than others.
While I think we would all like to see it lower, consider Japan’s 250-odd %; Greece’s 210 %; Italy’s near-160%; the USA’s 115%; and France’s 117% and maybe ours doesn’t seem quite so dire.
Yes like I said, it could be better - but it’s not dire.
@Zaphod So, if everybody is broke, where does the money come from??
If it’s the banks, how did they get it ??
Somebody has been playing us for fools for a long time it seems?
Donkeyman! 
Think of it as being a bit like getting a mortgage to buy your own home and then getting top-ups to add an extension, then a few years on another for a rewire and then next get a new roof.
Read this for a basic understanding:
Thanks Zaphod
But I suggest anyone interested should first familiarise themselves with Fiat Money.
Think of it as being a bit like money being a nothingness that has value gauged by faith shown by other economies. Things were dead simple in the days of the gold standard: the more you hoard, the more your notes were worth.
The title is all wrong: Fiat Money is Legal Tender.
I agree … all monies changing hands is good for the economy. A window cleaner may not pay any tax, but he spends his gains somewhere.
Pah … Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
Providing a service adds value too. So people go out to work or shop instead of fixing a leaky tap. Money multiplier adds value when they spend their cash etc. The public service system is outside that model.
all these so called tax evaders/avoiders (whichever the term) are adding value under the radar and making our economy rich so other countries invest in our currency. Therefore we can borrow more because we are seen as a good bet.
NB I am not saying not paying tax is a good thing, just that there is a balance between the economy and taxation that is important to maintain in order to avoid stagnation. In tandem with this there is an onus of the government who are caretakers of taxpayer funds to ensure they apply value for money checks on what they are spending. That is something that is brushed under the carpet far too often in the discussion. The reason it is brushed under the carpet is ?
Because that is a separate, very political & very contentious issue.
For example, look at all the money this government gave to it’s friends under very dubious circumstances in the guise of emergency Covid funding. For example, the 50 million unusable masks they purchased for £252 million. Or how about the £100 million test & trace contract they handed to Serco?
Serco has a very long history of failing on government contracts. For example Serco were fined £19 million for a fraud around the tagging of offenders. Or how about the way they ran Yarls Wood? Or it’s failures in running NHS contracts?
Serco was a Conservative Party supporter & has Rupert Soames as it’s Group Chief Executive Officer. Rupert being the brother of former Tory MP Nicholas.
so shouldn’t any value of taxpayer evasion/avoidance include wasted taxpayers’ money by schemes that are not scrutinised by the taxpayer? Should taxpayers not have a say in how their hard earned funds are spent?
Yes. But it needs to look at not just how it’s spent, but also at links between the government of the day & those they are spending that money with. At the past history of those they are spending the money with & if those companies wanting that work, pay UK tax at a reasonable rate.
So more important that the companies pay tax than if the principle expenditure constitutes value for money for the taxpayer?
Ethics, morals & good business practices are not independent of each other. It is like driving. The Police Advance driving manual used to say on page one. The way you do the small things is the way you do all things.
We cannot expect any company, or individual, who feels that tax laws are not for them, to behave any differently when it comes to other laws. Companies & individuals either have morals & behave in a socially acceptable manner, or they do not.
Edited to add. Douglas Barders flying instructor used to say. Rules are for the guidance of men & the breaking of by fools. What I am saying is, we should not give tax payers money to people who believe tax laws are only for others.