Bruce wrote:
One of the most “irritating” things about Wilbur Smith is that his characters are “manly”.
Bakerman writes:
Whoa ! Whoa ! Back up ! Horribly arrogant ? Insufferable ? Irritatingly manly ?
Is it really necessary to tear down anything and everything that speaks of manhood ?
Would reading about limp noodles make some people feel more secure ?
We spent a great week on The Crown Prince which was only a year old at the time and the food was fantastic.
http://www.over50sforum.com/picture.php?albumid=1035&pictureid=10849
That is taken totally out of context. What I actually said was:
Please don’t make things up it is a very poor character trait and it makes the rest of your post a nonsense.
I honestly don’t see any difference between what I said and the full length version. Please take note that I did not put that sentence in quotes. I only put irritating and manly in quotes. That is the essence of the sentence. And in any event all of Wilbur Smith’s characters are NOT all handsome. I invite anyone who doubts that, to read “Sunbird” and then tell us if the hunchback Ben Kazan and the hunchback Huey Ben Amon are handsome. Moreover, one poster claimed that Tiata the slave was a “warrior”. Tiata was about as far from a warrior as one could imagine. Both postings demonstrate a lack of knowledge of Wilbur Smith’s writings. If people wish to critique books it would help if they had a knowledge of the subject.
I was happily posting away, sharing my love of Wilbur Smith books and along come several people who seemed to be trying to pop my balloon. I am well aware that there are people who intensely dislike any article, book or film about manly men and beautiful women. That is their right. I also understand that there are people who want to change the very nature of men and women. They have a right to try.
For my part, I believe in 5 million years of DNA evolution. I make no apologies for being who I am or what I like.
Dear me no one wants to pop your balloon !
Just adding our own thoughts on his books.
The character of the many talented Taita can be interpreted as the reader takes it. Yes I said warrior because Taita was also an expert fighter who was seemingly strong and skilled even in his old age .
River God is a fairly unbelievable book anyway but that’s what it is a fictional book a good read .
I have read many of his books they are mostly enjoyable despite or because of his super macho heroes ( as in the Countnays ) or in the but wise and complex Taita who rises from abused slave to councilor to rulers.
Sorry to disagree again but Taita was NOT an expert fighter. Off the top of my head I do not recall Taita ever being an active participant in any battles.
He did, however, claim to be well versed in military tactics. In fact, I do recall Tiata saying, “I have ever been a coward”. So, no. Tiata was no warrior.
to give some idea of ancient egypt building size
http://i.imgur.com/7WkHZLw.jpg
Ask yourself how on earth did the do it?
best seen enlarged times 4 or bigger to realise the size and height
One final thought about Tiata as “warrior”. Do people recall the incident at Elephant Island where Tiata received a basket of fruit from an unknown source ? The fruit was sent by an enemy, Lord Intef, but under the fruit was a huge angry cobra. Taita quickly leaped away in terror. But soon the cobra had Tiata cornered. A little slip of a 15 year old Lady Lostris came to Taita’s rescue. She, not he, saved the day. Tiata’s action were not those of a warrior. One poster, however, claimed that Wilbur Smith’s heroes were irritatingly manly. Hmm. If Taita had been manly, irritatingly or not, and if he had been a warrior he would never have needed the help of a girl.
So, you see, it was the girl who was the hero not Tiata,
Blimey Realspeed, even the photograph was big, it took my netbook several minutes to load…:shock:
Perhaps you have forgotten when Taita leaps to the rescue of his young charges when they are battling with an enraged hippo at the very beginning of River God?
SIGH Oh, my. Tiata DID NOT leap to anyone’s rescue during the Hippo hunt. He stayed on the boat and WATCHED while young Tanus finished off the beast with his sword.
I’ve said, over and over again, Tiata was no warrior. At no point in the story did he defeat anyone in hand-to-hand combat. Tiata was many things: intelligent, compassionate, kind, loving, loyal, trustworthy, educated, extremely talented — but a strong warrior ? Never !
Perhaps, in the passage of time, you have fused the characters of Tiata, the slightly built slave, and young Tanus who was indeed a mighty warrior.
Muddy said
I agree most of his heroes are horribly arrogant too.
River God is not as bad as the insufferable Courtney sagas but the hero does and knows everything !
I wonder if the heros are reflections of what the author might like to be (Wilbur Smith doesn’t sound like the sort of character i would like to meet if his comments re his own children are anything to go by )
Similarly Dick Francis also good writer but his heros are all the same tall, fit clever cool dark and handsome.
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Bakerman replies[/B]
I fail to understand why some people become so upset with a book(s) in which the hero is “horribly arrogant” or “Tall, fit, clever, cool, dark and handsome”. And, moreover, the following quote from one of our posters leaves me speechless.
River God is not as bad as the insufferable Courtney sagas but the hero does and knows everything. "
So you ‘fail to understand it’ people have different opinions what is there not to understand?
Bakerman replies
Having a different opinion is quite understandable. Deliberately going out of one’s way to belittle is another matter entirely. Moreover, to have the gall to critique a book about which one has a very poor knowledge is ridiculous and demonstrates poor judgement.
Now, a badly misinformed poster recently stated that Tiata was a “strong fighter” and a “warrior” and when I attempted to demonstrate how wrong that was, the poster replied, Perhaps you have forgotten how Tiata came to the rescue of his young charges during the hippo hunt.
I now go to my library and locate “River God”. Page 18, Quote: " I am a strong swimmer, and although in retrospect such foolhardiness makes me shudder, I truly believe that I MIGHT have dived over the side and swum down through those blood-dyed waters in an attempt to rescue my mistress. However as I poised at the ship’s rail, the waters directly below me opened and two heads bobbed out, both of them streaming water and as close as a pair of mating otters." Unquote
I could easily be defeated on many topics, but the writings of Wilbur Smith is NOT one of them. I own a copy of every book Wilbur Smith has written, and some of them I have re-read 6 or more times just from the pure joy of reading a master at work.
What started out as a post on how much I love Mr. Smith’s writing’s, in which I wished only to share that joy, has become an unpleasant experience due to the nasty remarks of a few people. :twisted: Not cool. Not cool at all.
You have to accept that other people have opinions which may or may not be correct it’s a book for goodness sake a work of fiction not the end of the world !
I too have read and kept every book Wilbur Smith has written and like you I have re-read most of them several times, apart from the last couple of books, which seem to have fallen off in quality a bit (wonder if he has a ghost writer these days - he is quite elderly now).
IMO Wilbur Smith has written some rip roaring fictionover the years, which is appreciated world-wise.
Just enjoy his writings for the pleasure his stories have given you bakerman - ignore everything else. You don’t have to persuade anyone - why try anyway. Nobody can take away the pleasure you have had reading his books and that is what counts.
Who is Wilbur Smith? I’m kidding, Other than text books and the Newspaper as of recently I haven’t had time to sit down and start a book. I should get one and keep it in my semi-private library ( restroom). 
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Realspeed, this is totally off topic, but those are some of the most beautifully crisp photos of Egypt I have ever seen. It must have been a sensational holiday!
Yep over the years have read most of Smithies books and have yet to be disappointed with any, My favourites are the Courtney series
Have you read “Sunbird” ? Definitely one of my favorites.