Pedestrians versus Cyclists - Who's to Blame?

If this is shared path then where are the signs are to confirm this? This is a pavement for pedestrians and no news report appears to be able to confirm it’s a shared path. The council hasn’t put in a proper cycling infrastructure and of course this will put stress on relations between pedestrians and cyclists. This disabled woman is a victim of lazy council planners. It’s happening everywhere.

The disabled are being targeted all around the country with shoddy planning. Judy Dench is now getting involved in opposing York council’s ruling to ban blue badge holders from the city centre. It’s abysmal. The most vulnerable groups are being marginalised.

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Yes, genuine cyclists are having a rough time at the moment.
BTW, you may be engaging with someone who puts in 30000+ paces a day.

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I presume her legal people having seen the full video and heard the evidence knew she was guilty and that there was no point in appealing the verdict, so they recommended appealing against the sentence in the light of her disability?

Galty did share that link, though, that showed there are signs on the path?

And if the police weren’t sure, then neither could Auriol Grey have been, or the cyclist

So the cyclist had every right to use the path

And the uncertainty doesn’t excuse Auriol Greys aggressive behaviour in any way.

Just because you think someone is in the wrong doesn’t excuse behaving so badly you cause their death. That’s why it’s manslaughter

That’s if she even realised what she had done… though I’m sure it must have registered with her at some point.
I wonder whether she was assessed at all by anyone in the medical profession ?
I’ve known a few people with these ‘difficulties’ and a few of them can NOT often forsee or understand the consequences of their actions.

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If you check Nursery road Huntingdon on google maps you will see there are signs about half a mile further up on that road past the Tyre repair place. The shared path is on the opposite site of the road. You’d think the police, council and solicitors would have confirmed if it was a shared path had that been the case. The signs that do exist on the opposite side of the road are very unclear. Not something a cyclist could see. It’s possible the shared path starts at the pedestrian crossing at Hartford road & goes west. But definitely no signs on the side the accident happened. If you find one I am happy to be corrected.

No she didn’t because it was a pavement. Is it possible Auriol Grey was aware that the shared path was on the other side of the road and that is why she was so upset because perhaps that is why she used this side of the road to walk?

The council is guilty of manslaughter on this occasion.

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A woman died and the circumstances were terrible .
The grey woman whatever her vulnerabilities didn’t own the pavement she didn’t need to stay in the middle and certainly not to wave her arms towards the rider
she caused an innocent persons death .

The Judges summing up .

How the Judge reached the sentence of Auriol Grey - YouTube

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Very interesting … :thinking:

According to the judge, Grey was aggressive, reckless, left the scene of the incident, lied in interview, displayed no remorse, denied intellectual impairment and gave no evidence - no wonder that the jurors were unanimous in finding her guilty, despite previous “good character” and acknowledged disabilities.

As to the sentence, the judge, seemingly, followed the rules. Grey had pleaded not guilty and offered no evidence in defence. Any sentence reduction will now depend on the outcome of the sentence appeal procedure.

Since there will, no doubt, some discussion of the judge’s remarks, here they are in full:

You have been convicted of manslaughter after a re-trial. You gave no evidence at trial one or two. In broad terms, the issue at trial was whether what took place might have been an accident, self-defence or unlawful violence. You were convicted unanimously by the jury.

Most of what took place was captured on camera footage. You were walking on the pavement. You resented the presence of an oncoming cyclist. The footage shows you shouting aggressively and waving your left arm. You do not stop, slow down or move to one side. You are territorial about the pavement and not worried for your own safety. After careful thought, I concluded these actions are not explained by your disabilities.

The court heard evidence from a number of witnesses, and I found William Walker to be reliable and thoughtful. He is a cyclist and driver. He said that you and Mrs Ward appeared to have come to a halt in front of each other and you made a lateral sweeping movement with your left arm which was directed at Mrs Ward. He said “it either made contact or she recoiled and fell”. She fell into the busy ring road where she was killed by a passing car driven by Carla Money.

This was, I think, a shared path for cyclists and pedestrians that allowed them to go around the busy ring road. The vital point is this: I am sure you knew cyclists used that path and you were not taken by surprise or in fear for your safety. The path at the point of collision 2.4 metres wide.

I have considered the evidence about eyesight and the CCTV footage and visual impairment was not a factor in this incident.

You and Mrs Ward both welcomed the safety of the pavement. She because she was an elderly cyclist and you because of your disabilities. Consideration for other road users is the lesson of this tragic case. We are all road users, whether as motorists, cyclists or on foot.

I have been referred to the guidelines on unlawful act manslaughter issued by the Sentencing Council and have heard submissions from both parties.

In terms of the guidance, looking at these matters in the round, culpability C is made out, but towards the lower end of the scale.

A starting point of four years seems just, based on my finding that the sweep of your arm was an intentional act but being reckless as to whether harm would be caused.

I reject the submission that this is best framed in terms of category D for reasons I have indicated.

Aggravating factors

The vulnerability of Mrs Ward who was on a bike.

The effect on Mrs Carla Money (in so far as her first statement extends). Her enduring distress is entirely foreseeable.

Matters reducing seriousness and personal mitigation

You offered assistance at the scene, but you were turned away by others. But, on the other hand, you then left before police arrived and went off to do shopping. You were evasive when police traced you and told lies in interview.

You have no convictions or cautions or reprimands. You are 49 years old. This stands to your credit.

Your medical history and significant disabilities would have crushed many but you have endured all that in a commendable way. Until now have demonstrated a positive lifestyle and I have no doubt that over the years you have endured all kinds of difficulties when going around the town centre which may have made you angry on this occasion. In any event, your prior good character stands to your credit.

Is there a mental disorder bearing on these issues? I do not think so.

As to learning difficulties, there are none. Much was made in cross examination of what witnesses referred to as a “childlike face”. In fact you went to a mainstream school and denied in interview having any impairment of intellect. That is not decisive, in my view and I put it to one side. Both experts suggested that the childhood surgery resulted in “a degree of cognitive impairment”. (In my view, these difficulties do not bear on your understanding of what is right and wrong and what is appropriate or not). I should say that I saw the video your police interviews, I read the character statements detailing your lifestyle. I have also read the pre-sentence report and medical evidence and have learned as much about you as I can.

Remorse. There has not been a word about remorse from you until the pre-sentence report was prepared, and here there is a reference to remorse which has never been passed on to the Ward family. In this regard I accept your counsel’s explanation that this may be a function of your disabilities and do not hold it against you.

There has been a delay in getting this case to trial. This is a mitigating factor I must take into account in your favour.

I also take into account the particular difficulties, occasioned by your disabilities, that you will face in prison and when you emerge.

Balancing all these considerations, the proper sentence is three years imprisonment.

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I have been waiting for the Judge’s sentencing remarks to be published, so Many Thanks @galty and @Omah for posting the links to them.

I think these remarks cover and explain most of the points and questions regarding Auriol Grey that members of the public have highlighted.

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If anything it shows how complex a case it is … and how complex the question is , not of what constitutures right of way on shared pavements, whether clearly visible that they are shared or not ’ … but what people’s actual behaviour on them should tell the councils.

A few statements worth thinking about …

Why on earth would someone not give evidence? Did she understand the severity of her situation?

The judge said …

Yet a witness said …

Strange how the convicted has no factors in her defence … but the cycist does. A cyclist on the pavement is not vulnerable. That’s why cyclists get out of the road … so they are not vulnerable. A pedestrian is more vulnerable to my mind. I certainly feel at a disadvantage when an oncoming cyclist appears.

A few more details regarding this would have helped. In what manner was she turned away …certainly any bystander would or should have asked her to remain … if only until the police arrived.

I think , personally, he was a rubbish judge. We do have a few.
Patting her on the head with one judicious hand for staunchly and bravely living her life with her disabilities … but in the end , not allowing that these may have had some bearing on her behaviour.
Three years is still too harsh.
It was more like an antisocial behaviour disorder that tragically resulted in a death…
I wonder why the judicial system wanted to make an example of her? Certainly cyclists are been given more rights and priority at the moment … on the roads versus motorists, on the pavements versus pedestrians.
Getting on a bike seems to be the way to go … even cycling on a pavement.

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If shared pavements really are the way to go … and it does seem to be going that way , councils need better funding, better signage and pavements that are better maintained and can meet the safety demands of all users.
But how to fund them?
I’ve always believed that cyclists, whether as road users or pavements users really ought to have insurance and a licence if not actually some form of road tax or low level MOT.
e-scooters and mobiity scooters also need proper categorisation and legislation.

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The judge referred to:

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/unlawful-act-manslaughter/

C – Factors indicating medium culpability

Cases falling between high and lower including but not limited to

  • where death was caused in the course of an unlawful act which involved an intention by the offender to cause harm (or recklessness as to whether harm would be caused) that falls between high and lower culpability

I cycle and have insurance. There is nothing further I can buy or apply for as things are.

One thing that does occur when talking about insurance. Perhaps even pedestrians need it because they too can be the cause of accidents. That’s a measure too far? Yes it is but if a pedestrian is the cause of an accident, what recourse does an innocent party have?

From what I read, insurers or solicitors are unlikely to go after compensation from a pedestrian who has caused an accident because they, like the uninsured cyclist, won’t have any money. Also, it could be bad publicity for a company to go after a pedestrian for compensation. It seems though, that we could all in the mix for possible causes of accidents once leaving the house.

If a footpath is a shared one but there are no markings other than an occasional blue sign on a post, the most considerate course a cyclist can take is to steer towards the road side of the path so that the pedestrian is not made to walk nearer the traffic. This means the pedestrian also has to change course, which is perhaps annoying for them but safer because of being further away from the road. Where the pedestrian has been uncertain which side to go, I’ve given a hand signal to show which way I’ll move and this has never been misinterpreted.

Cyclists voice concerns about the dangers of cycling in traffic. Motorists voice concerns about cyclists being in traffic. Pedestrians voice concerns about being mixed in with cyclists. Cyclists don’t like that either but are glad to get away from being mixed in with motor traffic.

Authorities are complained about for making cycle paths. Authorities are complained about for not making cycle paths. Cyclists ride on footpaths when they shouldn’t. Pedestrians walk on cycle paths when they shouldn’t. It’s all a mess but something we have to learn to live with best we can because there are no solutions that will placate everybody.

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@Omah … it was only my own opinion … as the Law has already ruled on the case.
It doesn’t mean I can’t say that the law is an ass at times. :neutral_face:

What is the minimum for manslaughter in the UK?

What is the minimum sentence for manslaughter in the UK? Depending upon the severity of the offence, the lowest level sentence for manslaughter is a community order. The minimum prison sentence is generally two years.

Manslaughter Sentencing in the UK | Lawtons Law.

Even a 'one pinch ’ manslaughter conviction only carries a sentence of 1 - 24 years.
And that’s quite self-explanatory … it’s when you punch someone with the intent to cause grievous bodily harm or injure them but actually kill someone.
It was an accident that need not, and should not have happened.

What do think of the lawyers?

Exactly … and very well put.

If it had to be … as a pedestrian I’d quite happily have insurance or ‘pay’ into some kind of communal pot for using pavements.
I would however, then expect everyone else to do same.

Dogs on leads at all times in public, with licences and insurance.
Push chairs also insured.
Users on pavements who exceed ‘walking speed’ … such as mobility scooters and bikes should pay considerably more and their ‘mode of transport’ be subject to regular checks and they should cede right of way to the slower speed user.

Yes, I can see that that’s a bit of a bummer for the cyclist who decades ago was quite happy, and safe, riding in the road … but times have changed.
Some of the cycle paths in my area are damn confusing too … they appear to stop abruptly in what would be better utiised as lay bys for cars to park in ,… and proabably once were before some bright spark jobsworth said … Cyclists can use that and just get off their bikes when it runs out’.

Using your link:

What is the definition of involuntary manslaughter?

The offence of involuntary manslaughter can be divided into four categories:

  1. Unlawful act manslaughter – an intentional unlawful act which must be objectively dangerous and lead to death
  2. Gross negligence manslaughter – a duty of care towards the victim is breached as a result of gross negligence by the defendant, leading to the death of the victim
  3. Subjectively reckless manslaughter – a subjectively reckless act which leads to death
  4. Corporate manslaughter – a gross breach of the duty of care by a company or organisation that leads to a death