Here is the woman who ripped us off for at least £500,000!
The US got rid of her so she came to the UK knowing we are a soft touch. She claimed her husband could not afford to pay the medical bills but did nobody query how she could afford to fly around the world?
It later came to light that he was a wealthy businessman but they never paid anything.
there are always those who follow the rules and those who don’t its the same the whole world over just in different proportions wherever you may be - its called trust and honesty versus distrustful and dishonesty - got it?
It’s called being stupid and allowing corrupt unscrupulous people from notoriously corrupt lands to take us for all they can get because we are a soft touch .
Try getting free medical treatment in other countries then without insurance and see how you get on. 
Strange thinking from you, sir.
Earnings do not impact getting into the state health system. Being resident and paying tax, even small amounts of tax, are key. Not one’s wealth. If you are a French citizen then, as I explained, you are in their health system by default. So where your notion of the dead bodies of poor French people come from, who knows?
Nor am I clear about your comment about dead migrants. What point are you making?.
It’s not private administrators but management consultancy. A bit like PM special advisors but for business. I’m pretty sure there is not a single government body or arms length body that does not hire management consultants for projects and changes. Of course they are also popular in big business.
I don’t know about incentives for GPs but it’s a big thing now for big business to take over companies that were previously partnerships or sole traders. For example it’s happened in the legal industry, where solicitors just can’t compete with the big boys. Small accountancy firms have been taken over by the big four. Dentists are being taken over big time. Now they have their beady eye on GP services too. For small partnerships the appeal is a massive reduction in risk.
@strathmore , lts called ’ tongue in cheek’ , l apologize for using it!
I assumed that being english you would be aquainted with this form
of address ??
The dead immigrants are a reference to the number of penniless migrants
without EU health cards currently sleeping on calais beaches ??
Once again l apologise, l had no idea you would be unable to grasp this!!
@AnnieS , l think thats what l was trying to say, consultancy/administrators
is really the same thing as far as lm concerned !
All l can say is that the doctors and dentists will soon regret selling out
as they will soon be doing all the work for peanuts while the ’ consultants ’
pocket all the profits ?
Something like our energy suppliers now ??
The reduction in risk is an illusion imo, and is used as an incentive only?
DM I can’t see them having any regrets when they go and retire to Torquay or Cornwall and watch the sunset through English palm trees while sipping their G&T. Bots then do all the work & patients will soon be ruing the day they moaned about their GP.
Management consultants are very different from administrators. They are paid to come in and tell the business how it should do its business more effectively. Most of the change you see is directed by their ideas. It creates distance between management and decision making. So if it goes belly up they can blame the consultant. If people don’t like it blame the consultant. but if all works out well management gets a gold star for hiring the consultant. win:win for management.
@AnnieS, So, do you think the way things are going is a good thing then ??
It sounds as if you are in favour of management consultants ?
Your vision of palm trees and G&Ts overlooking the ocean will only be true
for the founders of the GP practice, the younger ones will be the ones
working for nothing ??
My opinion of advisers/ consultants remains very low , and l question how
they can be justified when the results of their tampering are so evident
in the NHS that we have at the moment !!
Why arent these “consultants” being penalised at the moment if as you say
the management can “blame the consultant” ??
I see management consultants as a very resource hungry commodity. They are very expensive and are used everywhere including ventures such as HS2 and crossrail. It’s a gravy train and I don’t understand why it’s still going on but they seem to be making policy everywhere without being part of organisations.
I know nothing about the contractual arrangements GPs make in big takeovers. But I’m sure they have to honour the NHS contract in some way. The surgery I use is still the old partnership but they do have more locums these days and there seem to be partners and then GPs who work for them. I don’t know whether any GP gets paid less than others, but some run the practice too because their name is on the door.
A management consultant can walk away but the management is absolved of guilt. It’s a convenient arrangement that goes right through British industry - I wonder whether the same is true abroad or whether they have people running organisations who are also capable of making all decisions and accountable for everything they do.
The Indieinous of this country should not pay more for the NHS.
However the visiting tourists/illegal immigrants etc should pay.
The NHS is not a charity to be used and abused by all and sundry/
@AnnieS , Thanks for claryfying your point of view Annie, l see we are on
the same side after all?
I can speak for South Africa only on whether consultants are widely used,
and in my experience private business does not use consultants hardly
ever, but in government it is rife and has been responsible for a number
of expensive mistakes and scandals !
Same as here l suppose ??
hi, I would think UK private businesses use management consultants more than the government (in total at least). Thinking back to the split of staff and earnings for most of the major consulting businesses in the UK, I’d think it 4/5 private business work - although this did change a bit over time. Plus, regardless of what you would expect, the day rate for central and local government work was a bit lower than the majority of private business work. This did of course change depending on the nature of the work.
Another interesting factor is that countries differ in terms of how they procure consulting work and the extent to which they use consultancy firms. I believe that the US and the UK are heavy user of business consultants - and tend to be happy to contract for a single consultancy to run larger projects. My experience of European businesses is that many tended to buy more piece-meal work and for the business itself to own the larger projects.
Now, before anyone jumps on me, this is not to say that I think all consultants are good, or that all consultancy work adds value, or that it is good to buy in consultants. Good management consulting can give businesses (or indeed government departments) ideas or changes that they would have struggled to deliver themselves. But not always.
@strathmore , Can you condense your reply a little please l am struggling
to find a definite statement or opinion in your post ??
Ooooer! Id better leave this thread now the managemen have just informed
me that l have contributed more than 20% of the posts on this thread ??
Bloody hell is that a crime now!?!?
I’ve posted links before about nurses pay scales published by both the NHS AND the Royal College of Nursing. Here’s the most up-to-date link I could find:
I agree with you that 12-13 hour shifts are very long when under extreme pressure (I worked 12hr shifts way back when and found them stressful even without the same levels of pressure nurses are under). However, how many of them, after working 4 days, or nights, then go “on the bank” and work in another hospital for another day or two at twice the pay?
I would suggest that nurses should work classic 40 hour weeks of mornings/afternoons/nights. It would take some working out to get 24/7/52 cover but it would reduce their stress levels.
@PercyVere, Regarding nurses taking extra work after working their
‘normal’ stint for the NHS , I agree that it is not ideal but it seems that
the grade 1 nurses find it difficult to survive on the money they get ?
Maybe this will changevwhen the. new pay deal recently announced comes
into effect ??
I believe this new deal is biased towards the lower end of the scale ??
The details you posted of NHS pay scales was useful but a bit long!!
Sir, I intentionally avoided opinion in my post. I was a management consultant for many years - but I must make clear I never, ever did any sort of government work. My work was very different. That is why, even though I have some insights into management consulting work, I would hesitate to comment too much on government work by consultants. And definitely not offer an opinion. Coz I know that I do not know.
Several years ago, when the NHS was bringing in nurses from the Philippines, most came in on Bands 1 and 2 contracts according to my SiL (a Band 6 nurse). They were able to live quite happily on the salary they were receiving at the time AND were able to send money home each month to pay for their children’s upkeep.
