Geronimo facing euthanasia

Stressful as this is undoubtedly, Defra have a warrant to enter her farm to do their job.

This is silly.

Defra declined to say, when asked whether they would use force to get into the pen, and declined to comment on Mr McGill’s challenge of a debate.

Geronimo case ‘opens can of worms’ on bTB

The alpaca, owned by RVN and breeder Helen Macdonald, was ordered to be slaughtered following a High Court hearing on 29 July, but is still alive – in part due to ongoing pressure from protesters who believe that Defra’s testing regimes are based on bad science.

‘Unsafe diagnosis’

Vet and TB researcher Iain McGill has said he is gravely concerned about the way Geronimo was tested, stating some scientists – including UK CVO Christine Middlemiss – claim that the Enferplex test when used on camelids is 99% effective.

Dr McGill said: “I have grave concerns; I think it is a very unsafe diagnosis. The way they are using it in UK alpacas is by first priming with purified protein derivative tuberculin, before taking the blood sample for Enferplex.

“Tuberculin is not a predictable protein, it’s an unpredictable protein soup. Unsurprisingly, it does increase antibodies to bTB antigens in cattle, and the small amount of detail Defra has thus far released strongly suggests it can do exactly the same thing in alpacas.

“Defra is perpetuating a system of trying to kill its way out of trouble. It’s the way disease was controlled in the 19th century, where it was used extensively to ‘stamp out’ rinderpest.

“As a profession, we need to move away from killing things when we don’t quite understand what’s going on. Geronimo is a shining example of that. Cattle owners will rightly say ‘well, what about my cattle?’ And I would say, exactly.

“Some of the cattle killed as a result of the bTB policy are due to false positives, particularly where gamma interferon testing is used in addition to the skin test, and Defra openly admits that. Some of these gamma positive cattle are genuinely not infected with bTB.

“The killing can’t continue. It’s simply not working. We need to think of an alternative strategy to deal with bTB that is totally different from one based on ‘test and slaughter’.”

Potential backlash

Dr McGill argued the main reason Defra was refusing to acknowledge the potential flaws in its TB controls was due to the potential legal backlash from farmers should the Government department admit faults in its system.

Dr McGill added: “The reason they want to make an example of Geronimo by killing him is that they are hoping the problem will then go away. But I think it has opened a can of worms for the Government.

“This isn’t just the tide turning, this is a tsunami that is going to change the way that TB is controlled.

“I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel for farmers. If Defra can just sit down and have a grown-up conversation with myself and colleagues – with representatives from the BVA, the BCVA, the farming community, the CVO and George Eustice or even Boris Johnson – and say ‘look, there’s another whole way of doing this that involves swapping out all the killing and all the testing’.

“Poor farmers in the West Country are now going to have to endure bTB testing every six months. Can you imagine the stress and terror that places on farmers’ families – Russian roulette with the fear of loss, business costs, trading restrictions and heartbreak at losing their cows?

“I think there is another way of approaching the disease. Would farmers be willing to swap bTB testing, and all that terror and heartbreak, to a system largely without cattle movements, with slurry controls, without the unnecessary mass killing of wildlife and the destruction of the ecosystem, and – as well as losing the terror of testing – to be offered vaccination instead?”

Vet Times contacted Defra, which declined to comment citing ongoing legal proceedings.

Are these people totally out of their minds ?

Does make you wonder, not going to make a jot of difference to the outcome, doubt their reason for this unhelpful futile protest.

Well its 6pm on the Friday now…anyone know whats happened?

Nothing will be reported until after Defra have done the deed.

@PixieKnuckles
Geronimo still with us.

Developer of the tuberculosis test himself says it can’t be relied on in this case.

DEFRA cannot admit they might be killing a healthy animal and others.

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Thanks for this update! He’s becoming a bit of a poster boy for this TB situation. There’ll be a “Geronimo Law” brought in next! :open_mouth:

He does look cute, from his pov the only thing he is missing are the females.

Helen Macdonald, ’ We got a letter yesterday from the government legal department. I genuinely think they don’t know what to do, they don’t want to kill him.


'And they expect me to put down my own animal. I’m supposed to arrange his euthanasia and then say that the body will be available from ‘X’ time so they can come and collect it.

'Well I’m just not going to do that.

'They want me to kill him. The want to say that I consented, and they don’t want his blood on their hands.

'They’re trying to break me down. All of these extensions and faffing around is to wear down my mental state.

‘They’ve done it before, I got bullied and threatened and all sorts in 2017. In a two-month period he survived seven attempts to come and kill him.’

Asked if officials could break in to carry out the slaughter, Miss Macdonald added: 'The police will let them in, they have a warrant on access.

'If I kill him, I’ll need to agree to kill him with my vet.

‘But my vet won’t come as he’s worried about his own safety. How is it possible to kill a healthy animal in this environment?’

Must really love this fella, but is it worth all the stress.

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Yes, in a word. If it was ever in doubt that a healthy animal would be killed, then its worth every minute of hassle I think.

@PixieKnuckles
So you agree with her stance and would you take the same action to protect the animal.

I would if there was any doubt, yes. And if the animal was killed then found to be testing negative, there would be so much he££ to pay! I would be FURIOUS

That is the nub of the issue, if DEFRA put a heathy animal down, rather than accept there may be a flaw in the testing others will expect compensation for animals they have lost.

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Defra do not inspire trust in rural communities.

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I don’t imagine historical claims would be successful, but going forward, I think they will be more careful (or thorough) about testing and euthanasia…

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As far as bTB infected cattle are concerned, the farmers are already compensated for any that are euthanised because of TB so, IMO, there won’t be any historic claims.

Still it must be sad if you have built up a herd with bloodlines that have taken years to establish .

Very true but that’s not taken into account because how do/can you put a value on bloodline establishment?

Can horses get TB?

Good question, Cinders. Google came up with:

Horses are relatively resistant to tuberculosis caused by Mycobacterium tuberculosis; however, they are susceptible to M bovis. When tuberculosis does develop, tuberculous, noncalcified lesions are often found in the liver, mesenteric lymph nodes, lungs, and other sites.

### Tuberculosis in Horses - Generalized Conditions - Veterinary …