A voice together with 29 other countries d00d, when you ‘rule’ someone your’s is the only voice that matters.
And there we have it…As long as you’re alright Lincs…
Yes Lincs, in the same way that you confound us all with statistics and specifics taken from Pro left EU sucking, money making, greedy B’stards.
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Its got to be better feeding a Cash Calf than a Cash Cow!!
Luckily it worked out that my own problems were solvable and solved, eventually after much stress. But many other faced problems that could not be solved - loss of business revenue, increased business costs, loss of market access and some the outcome was loss of a business. Some suffering is less tangible - such as the huge fall in investment into the UK. How do you assess the problems of something not happening?
Again, I simply hate the argument that goes “I did not experience such things directly myself therefore I’m going to say it was all pretty much ok”. Quite apart from the awful lack of empathy, the casual disregard for what others experienced, the lack of curiosity on what happened outside your own immediate surroundings, quite apart from all that, it is a dismal argument. So to counter that dismal argument I put up my own personal experience - both sit at the same level of worth.
I think you find that statistics and specifics themselves have no bias. They are just numbers and facts. If you have “better” facts from other sources (what might you call that - pro-right, anti-foreigner, isolationist, jingoistic money making greedy gammons?) then please use those to counter any facts I post.
It was a three way split UK, France, Germany. The E3 we were known as, on the same wavelength, streams of red tape, letting the lesser members know who rules. Masses of work, from infrastructure to business management. But it’s all gone quiet.
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Silence always follows complexity.
The promise of new trade deals once the UK was out of the EU meant that our “skilled” deal team were prepared to accept anything to get new trade deals. The Australian negotiating team noted how bad a deal theirs was for the UK, in particular for UK farmers. This has now come to reality with cheaper produce coming into the UK supermarkets.
This impacts the price UK farmers are getting for cattle. About £400 per animal has been wiped off the price farmers can get for her beef cattle, just when all farming costs – feed, energy, fertiliser – have been rising significantly (thanks Trump).
The fall in livestock prices is the result of a flood of cheaper meat arriving from Australia. Prices for beef in the supermarkets have remained broadly the same, but UK farmers have seen their income plummet.
Meanwhile exports to the EU, the biggest market for UK farmers, has fallen by a third. Throw into the mix the fall in subsidies as DEFRA transitioned their agriculture sector support from the EU common agricultural policy to the lesser ones from the UK government. Oh, and getting seasonal workers has become much more difficult.
For this sector, many who supported it at the time, Brexit is the gift that keeps kicking them in the teeth. How this does not make everyone in the UK very angry is beyond me.
Everything I say or do is justified. There is no false basis / flawed logic. It doesn’t need ‘calling out’, it’s a difference of opinion. You’re wrong, I’m right.
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Except you offer no information, justification or backing for your claims. So in your head you are right but others are unable to judge whether this is in fact true. If you are content to only live in your head, with no external contact, then I can see that this will work. For you.
Presumably boomer is over fifty and spent some of his adult life observing politics, politicians and the antics of the EU over the years…As have I…So it’s quite impossible to post a factual report of things he’s seen and heard over his life, and his (and my) opinions are as equally valid as yours. How come you never post details of who you actually support?
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That’s the crux Foxy, I stopped posting what I thought were facts years ago, there is no such thing as fact because tomorrow something else will be thrown into the mix!
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I love tomorrows
Never a dull moment
Actually he posted an opinion. That opinion was that the Brexit we ended up with was down to failings / weakness by UK politicians and that Brexit proper has not been achieved. Which, to be fair, is an opinion held by others. My simple question to that was - in what way? I was just asking for some examples of this claimed shortcoming. Surely if Brexit has fallen short then it is easy to explain these missing elements. That is a very reasonable request.
No answer. No details. No examples. This lack of info could mean that the claim is wrong. No info, no basis for the claim so it seems reasonable to doubt the claim that Brexit has fallen short in some way.
It seems more likely that what actually took place is very different. It is about the mismatch of promise to reality. The promise of the benefits of leaving the EU led to high expectations and those expectations have not been met. One conclusion to draw from this is that a proper Brexit would have delivered these promises… therefore this proper Brexit cannot have happened. Another possible conclusion is that the promises and the expectations were misplaced - leaving the EU was never going to deliver these benefits. The disappointment (n what the UK has ended up with) was always going to happen because the promises had no foundation or basis. In other words, you were sold a lie.
I’m not disappointed, in so much as my expectations were always low. I was always certain that Brexit would be harmful to the UK.
Therefore I ask those who are disappointed, who think the state of the UK stems from Brexit not being done properly, one question - what specifically has not been done? I am asking them to justify their thinking and their claim. Surely that is fair?
You don’t have to have a university degree to realise that for the average person on the street nothing has changed, therefore brexit was just in name only. Not only that, life has been made extremely difficult by the EU and our own government to teach us a lesson.
The majority of brexiteers wanted to leave the EU to stop the debris passing through EU countries to get to the UK. What are the French doing? Do they allow none documented persons to pass unchallenged through their country?
And what has happened to the 30 billion quid we paid for membership? (It was on Boris’s battle bus)
Wasn’t it supposed to be used to improve the NHS?
Just to the average bloke on the street (Me for example) I can see nothing but problems created to make sure that we never go against the establishment again.
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Exactly. There was an expectation (remember all those promises) that Brexit would bring improvements that everyone would notice. But nothing has changed, in fact things seem to be getting worse. However the act of leaving, the withdrawal agreement, the changes to trade and travel - all did happen. So for some, the (wrong) conclusion is - that one Brexit did happen but the ideal Brexit was not allowed to happen. But Brexit in full did happen. So the only viable conclusion was the expectations from Brexit were wrong. The promises of millions for the NHS were false. Sunlit uplands was just words with no substance. Fantastic new trade deals - false. Prosperity for farmers and fishermen - false. Prices coming down - false. Empty promises and an outcome from Brexit that was never going to happen.
The lesson being taught was by the UK itself. Do not shoot yourself in the foot by establishing self-imposed trade barriers. Don’t believe easy unfounded promises. And the last lesson, the important lesson, is to remember who was making all these promises. The lying snake oil salesmen who have never been held to account for misleading a country - Johnson, Gove and Farage.
Don’t folks ever stop and think they may be being hoodwinked?
Yes, when the trading bloc ‘Common Market’ transitioned into a political bloc the ‘EU’.
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